Originally posted by Squelchbelch Have a look at my stats above^^
From 12 players rated between USCF 2229 & 1811
10 have higher FIDE ratings than USCF.
I'd call +83% a trend, considering the players where objectively chosen.
I don't buy all this "lower levels probably play less FIDE tournaments, so the USCF rating displays their progress faster" stuff.
If anything that should mea ...[text shortened]... eal world results point in a different direction.
I may do this later if I get the chance.
oh, I saw only 4 cases before. did you edit the rest in after, or did I just miss them? well, anyway, I still find it very hard to believe that.
and NYC (and especially a single club) chess scene is probably not representive of the USCF. and hence not even close to objectively chosen.
if I'd choose 'aatos' club from helsinki similarly, the 'results' would be that all 20 clubs in helsinki would have 2 GMs each, and the average of FCF would be 2050. - there are 5 GMs in finland and the average rating is 1565.
Originally posted by AlboMalapropFoozer I am quite certain that Bobby Fischer is the only player who has ever achieved a USCF rating above 2800 (2815 if I recall correctly). Also, I seem to recall that his FIDE rating at that time was 2780.
That is quite a mistake on my side then; I am sure someone told me this on several occasions though - was there never a "big revision" of USCF ratings to make them all lower than 3000?
Originally posted by no1marauder A USCF 1500 would be a slightly above average tournament player making him equivalent to about say a 115 ECF. See this thread and the links contained therein: http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?subject=ECF_v._USCF_Ratings&threadid=100142
I can't agree with that.
From past experience I would expect a player graded ECF115 to slaughter USCF1500 although I agree with Fat Lady that 50 seems too low. I would estimate ECF80-85 as abouit teh same as USCF1500.
Originally posted by Fat Lady The formula given in that page doesn't give any justification for applying the "old" ECF (BCF) to FIDE conversion formula when converting between ECF grades and national ratings, but 1500 USCF ~= 113 ECF sounds like the right sort of figure. I'd like to see some empirical evidence though, surely someone on this site has both a USCF rating and an ECF grade?
I found two players in the Amateur section here: http://www.gibraltarchesscongress.com/gib2009/publicity_eng/playersamateur.html
Paul Smith has a 125 ECF and 1700 USCF
Paul Haddock has a 102 ECF and 1460 USCF
They're in the ballpark though their USCF's are a little higher than expected. Neither seems to have played much in the USCF (Haddock played in one tournament apparently).
Originally posted by Dragon Fire I can't agree with that.
From past experience I would expect a player graded ECF115 to slaughter USCF1500 although I agree with Fat Lady that 50 seems too low. I would estimate ECF80-85 as abouit teh same as USCF1500.
Check the Exeter web link given and the ratings distributions of the two organizations. An ECF 80-85 is in the lowest quarter of ECF ratings and would be equivalent to about a USCF 1150. Or if you go by the formula suggested in the other link, a ECF rating in the low 80's would translate to 1240-1280 USCF.
Originally posted by no1marauder Check the Exeter web link given and the ratings distributions of the two organizations. An ECF 80-85 is in the lowest quarter of ECF ratings and would be equivalent to about a USCF 1150.
I could stretch to about 100 ECF but players at ECF115 and above are simply stronger than USCF1500. I can't prove it as I've only played a few USCF players and that was 20 years ago but my experience then was that someone rated ECF115 would hold his own against a UCSF at about 1700.
The ECF site gives 2 conversion formulas which show
FIDE = 1250 + ECF*5
BCF FIDE
150 2000
200 2250
230 2440
Note that the current conversion assumes a minimum FIDE Elo of 2000. It will be subject to future amendment in the light of further evidence; it is envisaged that reduction of the minimum rating on the FIDE system will affect the conversion formula in the future.
Foreign National Ratings
The new formula will only apply to conversion of official FIDE ratings. Conversions to and from foreign national ratings will continue to use the traditional formula, which is defined as follows
BCF to National Elo
Elo = (BCF x 8) + 600
BCF Elo
100 1400
125 1600
150 1800
175 2000
So an ECF150 is either graded 1800 or 2000 depending which conversion you use. He can't be both.
In my opinion the 1st formula inflates the lower ratings and the 2nd depresses the higher. Any ECF player between 100 and 150 probaly falls between the 2 figures. Of course next year the ECF is revising their figures upwards to correct an apparent understatement of ECF ratings and a player graded about 85 now will probably go up to about 110.
Originally posted by Dragon Fire I could stretch to about 100 ECF but players at ECF115 and above are simply stronger than USCF1500. I can't prove it as I've only played a few USCF players and that was 20 years ago but my experience then was that someone rated ECF115 would hold his own against a UCSF at about 1700.
The ECF site gives 2 conversion formulas which show
FIDE = 1250 + ...[text shortened]... e ECF is revising their figures upwards to correct an apparent understatement of ECF ratings.
A couple of games 20 years and you feel qualified to make such a sweeping generalization that is refuted by the actual data? Are you channelling Korch today?
Yes it can be both. One is comparing an ECF rating to FIDE and one is comparing an ECF rating to the USCF. What is so hard to grasp about that?
Originally posted by heinzkat ... text shortened ...was there never a "big revision" of USCF ratings to make them all lower than 3000?
No. It is true that the USCF rating system has had inflationary trends at times and deflationary trends at other times. I don't have any personal observations regarding the direct ECF-USCF conversion. My observations of many masters who have had both USCF and FIDE ratings was that their USCF rating was almost always higher than their FIDE rating. I would estimate a typical difference was around 80 points.
Originally posted by no1marauder A couple of games 20 years and you feel qualified to make such a sweeping generalization that is refuted by the actual data? Are you channelling Korch today?
Yes it can be both. One is comparing an ECF rating to FIDE and one is comparing an ECF rating to the USCF. What is so hard to grasp about that?
It is not comparing it to a USCF rating it is comparing it to ELO which is something different entirely. Whats so difficult for you to grasp about that!.
If the conversion formula was on the one hand comparing to FIDE and on the other to USCF it would imply that USCF1800 = FIDE2000 and that is simply not true and refuted by all the evidence which points to UCSF2000 more likely to be FIDE1800 as shown in previous postings in this thread.
As usual you simply distort facts to suit your preconceived notions that you are really under rated OTB which is probably not true.
Originally posted by Dragon Fire It is [b]not comparing it to a USCF rating it is comparing it to ELO which is something different entirely. Whats so difficult for you to grasp about that!.
If the conversion formula was on the one hand comparing to FIDE and on the other to USCF it would imply that USCF1800 = FIDE2000 and that is simply not true and refuted by all the evide ...[text shortened]... By the way, do you know this man? http://www.gilbertilaw.com/images/attorneys/KJB-02.jpg[/b]
Reading ain't your strong point (what is BTW?).
The link given assumes a MINIMUM FIDE rating of 2000. Perhaps you missed that. That part has been changed but the comparison of ECF to USCF remains valid your "couple of games 20 years ago" notwithstanding.
It's besides the point, but I'm rated OTB where I deserve to be based on my past performance. That rating would translate to about a ECF 119 or somewhere in the mid 1800's ELO based on the comparisons given. Again, check the Exeter site: http://www.exeterchessclub.org.uk/bcftable.html
Anyway, unlike everybody else here, I was actually able to bring some data to bear on the OP's question.
Originally posted by no1marauder A USCF 1500 would be a slightly above average tournament player making him equivalent to about say a 115 ECF. See this thread and the links contained therein: http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?subject=ECF_v._USCF_Ratings&threadid=100142
1500=115! You're having a laugh!! 115 is closer to 1800...
Originally posted by Marinkatomb 1500=115! You're having a laugh!! 115 is closer to 1800...
An 1800 ELO, a 1500 USCF. http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?subject=ECF_v._USCF_Ratings&threadid=100142
Or as the Exeter Chess Club article cited above puts it:
USCF
D} Minor/ BCF 75-100/ ELO 1625-1750/ Class D or C category 4
/
{C} Intermediate/ BCF 100-125/ ELO 1750-1875/ Class C or B/ category 3
/
{B} Major/ BCF 125-150/ ELO 1875-2000/ Class B or A/ category 2
Originally posted by no1marauder An 1800 ELO, a 1500 USCF. http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?subject=ECF_v._USCF_Ratings&threadid=100142
Or as the Exeter Chess Club article cited above puts it:
USCF
D} Minor/ BCF 75-100/ ELO 1625-1750/ Class D or C category 4
/
{C} Intermediate/ BCF 100-125 ...[text shortened]... 150/ ELO 1875-2000/ Class B or A/ category 2
USCF Class C runs from 1400-1600.
You got it spot on. 😀
ECF100 = ELO1750 = USCF1800.
As I said in the first place this makes USCF1500 about ECF80.
USCF class C is not equivilent to ECF class C more like ECF class E
Originally posted by Dragon Fire It is not comparing it to a USCF rating it is comparing it to ELO which is something different entirely. Whats so difficult for you to grasp about that!.
As usual you simply distort facts to suit your preconceived notions that you are really under rated OTB which is probably not true.
The gist of it is that no1marauder would be around 1200 Elo (FIDE) by these calculations and he has to tailor his argument to support his position.
USCF rating to ECF grade
22 Jan '09 17:22
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