With a win = 2 points and draw is 1 piont.
What are your thoughts on having wins be 3 points like on this site.
I had look at one of my chess instutors tournaments and he was in a 5 way tie for first. and if they had 3 pionts for a win he would have place second all by himself with one person winning the tournament. And also i would think that less people would ask for draws after 10 moves.
I woul like to ask the USCF president about this when she comes to my chess club next month. or are most people about tradition?
This topic just keeps coming back, it's been debated for decades, and always falls by the wayside for the same reasons.
Why should a hard fought draw, a battle to the last move, be penalized to the same extent as a premature handshake because both players want the afternoon off? Why should it be penalized at all??
And if we're going to "adjust" (I would say distort) the value of a win, then while we're at it, shouldn't we also adjust the values so that a win with Black is worth more than a win with White? If not, why not??
All such efforts to make chess "more fair", or "more balanced", or more whatever, are doomed from the start because chess IS fair. Across a lengthy time of participation, we will have White and Black approximately the same number of times, and if we want to make sweeping changes to the game because those changes benefit us today, what will we do tomorrow when those very same changes work against us??
regards,
Originally posted by RBHILLThis is a classic example of why I left the USCF years ago. Rather than this silly debate on points for a win, draw etc. The USCF should accept the standard point system used by other countries, and be changing it's format and web presence to become more like Red Hot Pawn and other sites, offering more opportunities for online correspondence chess compitition for players around the world. There membership problems would vanish, and financial situation would improve. The OTB activities could remain unchanged. Although there has been some baby steps in this direction, the USCF is still conducting business like it's 1972, and Bobby Fischer is still the king of the chess world.
With a win = 2 points and draw is 1 piont.
What are your thoughts on having wins be 3 points like on this site.
I had look at one of my chess instutors tournaments and he was in a 5 way tie for first. and if they had 3 pionts for a win he would have place second all by himself with one person winning the tournament. And also i would think that less peop ...[text shortened]... ident about this when she comes to my chess club next month. or are most people about tradition?
Originally posted by RBHILLMaybe a "no agreed draws until move 30" rule would work. Sure, this will not stop those who are very determined to make a draw. However, 30 moves might lead to a position where one side or the other is tempted to go for the win, previous agreements notwithstanding.
With a win = 2 points and draw is 1 piont.
What are your thoughts on having wins be 3 points like on this site.
I had look at one of my chess instutors tournaments and he was in a 5 way tie for first. and if they had 3 pionts for a win he would have place second all by himself with one person winning the tournament. And also i would think that less peop ...[text shortened]... ident about this when she comes to my chess club next month. or are most people about tradition?
Originally posted by SwissGambitSorry SG, but this is another idea that just won't work, and we know that because it's been tried numerous times and always failed miserably. Strong players are simply not going to be told how to play their games, and when they may or may not take a draw, and they have proven that every time this solution in search of a problem has been tried.
Maybe a "no agreed draws until move 30" rule would work.
regards,
Originally posted by GambiteerWhy exactly doesn't it work?
Sorry SG, but this is another idea that just won't work, and we know that because it's been tried numerous times and always failed miserably. Strong players are simply not going to be told how to play their games, and when they may or may not take a draw, and they have proven that every time this solution in search of a problem has been tried.
regards,
Originally posted by SwissGambitI like the idea of maybe 15 moves. I think that is how far an opening line goes. well at least to 13 moves.
Maybe a "no agreed draws until move 30" rule would work. Sure, this will not stop those who are very determined to make a draw. However, 30 moves might lead to a position where one side or the other is tempted to go for the win, previous agreements notwithstanding.
Originally posted by SwissGambitWell the "bottomest" bottom line answer is human nature; as I noted, strong players are simply not going to be told how to conduct their games, and when they may or may not take a draw.
Why exactly doesn't it work?
But perhaps you are meaning "what do the players do to insure that it won't work?" That's a fair and reasonable question.
Let's go with the "no draws without 15 moves being played", which is also mentioned here and which has been actually tried. The first problem that has cropped up is that some players who might not be inclined to take a draw have done so in order to join the protest. After that, it's just mechanics. Some players have repeated moves, as has also been noted here as a possibility, and some of those have done so within the 15 moves, just to further thumb their nose. Some players with a sense of humor have constructed totally locked and blocked pawn formations. Most have simply turned in more 16-move draws by agreement than you ever saw in your life.
Btw, lest anyone reading this thread misunderstand, or look down the dark side path and wonder, we are NOT talking here about team tactics, where teams have used prearranged draws among the team members to manipulate an entire tournament crosstable, insuring that their team gets the top spots and that outsiders are shut out. Here we are only talking about draws between two individuals.
regards,
At the reasent ECU general assembly, a 40 moves before draw can be agreed rule has been aproved.
http://www.europechess.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116:ecuga&catid=2:slides
http://www.dsu.dk/UserFiles/File/pdf/diverse2011/ECU%20Commission%20for%20Sofia%20Rule%20report.pdf
The problem is as mentioned in this thread. There is many ways to go around this rule.
1. There are many lines ending way before in forced repetitions.
2. You can easily end up in a position where no move can be made other than repeating, without getting a worse position. (See Svidler - Anand game from today - Svidler could have played other "even" moves and continued the game, but no arbiter in the world would have the chess strenght to tell!).
3. Prearranged games (no problem for players at even elo 2100 to fast memorize a whole game, GM's absolutly no problem!)
Originally posted by GambiteerInteresting point. What do you propose to stop these 'team tactics'?
Btw, lest anyone reading this thread misunderstand, or look down the dark side path and wonder, we are NOT talking here about team tactics, where teams have used prearranged draws among the team members to manipulate an entire tournament crosstable, insuring that their team gets the top spots and that outsiders are shut out. Here we are only talking about draws between two individuals.
regards,