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What do you think about the KIA?

Standard memberplopzilla
Only Chess 18 May '11 23:45
  1. p
    Standard memberplopzilla
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    18 May '11 23:45
    What are the Pros & Cons

    Don't seem to see it much now although its been played by some top players..
  2. rc
    Standard memberrobbie carrobie
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    18 May '11 23:565 edits
    Originally posted by plopzilla
    What are the Pros & Cons

    Don't seem to see it much now although its been played by some top players..
    Fischer (aged 12) v Lapiken, Oklahoma City US-op Rd: 4, 1956

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    One of my favourite games, black plays rather provocatively 8...b5 and the rest is just
    beautiful. while i am no expert and rarely play it, on those occasions in which i
    have, i played it badly, but it can be very versatile and played against most black
    defences, but its reckoned to be best against those which block in the queens
    bishop, like the French, or some variations of the Sicilian.
  3. Standard memberShallow Blue
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    19 May '11 17:21
    Originally posted by plopzilla
    What are the Pros & Cons
    Pro: it's much like the Colle, only on the kingside rather than the queenside.
    Con: it's much like the Colle, only on the kingside rather than the queenside.

    I'm sure Fisher could create marvels of attack with it, particularly against less careful opponents. I wouldn't bank on getting an advantage out of it myself. Great for playing for a draw with White, you blackguard.

    Richard
  4. w
    Standard memberwargamer66
    Steve B.
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    19 May '11 17:50
    It's okay, but when I see my opponent play it I don't feel any fear. Playing directly into sharp lines gets my attention a whole lot more. I get annoyed with the French Defense a bit, so I might start playing the KIA only against that opening. For me, the KIA wouldn't cut it for every game as white, I feel like I have a better chance of getting an advantage with either e4 or d4.
  5. w
    Standard memberwatchyourbackrank
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    19 May '11 20:31
    KIA is only making sense against the french or other black systems where black commits to an early e6. Otherwise black equalizes too easily.

    YouTube
  6. D
    Standard memberDiophantus
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    19 May '11 22:36
    KIA is fine if you have a certain attitude to the opening. If you are happy to fight for equality as white (it should be the other way about really) then the KIA will suit you. However, it shares the same fault as many other reversed defences in that the defence relies on counter attack but when you have the first move there is nothing to counterattack unless you deliberately give up the initiative. The problem is how to give up that extra tempo without causing too much damage?

    Duncan Suttles tried playing 1. g3 because he always played 1. ... g6 as black.. As white he didn't do so well despite often getting King's Indian type positions. He was always struggling to lose time. Charlie Storey, the guy who named that 1. ... g6 2. ... Bg7 3. ... c5 thing The Sniper, would like to play his favourite black defence as white and suggests playing 1. a3 to deliberately give up the initiative so he can then counterattack.

    This need to give up the initiative is likely the reason the KIA doesn't do as well as its opposite number, the King's Indian Defence. White needs to lose a tempo if he is not to arrive at a position a move earlier than he would playing the same moves as black. One consequence of this arriving too soon is that often black does not have to castle into the impending kingside attack that only materialises in KIDs and Pircs once white has castled.
  7. p
    Standard memberplopzilla
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    20 May '11 12:32
    thanks all - so it seems people don't think much of it, yet Leonid Stein did ok with it?
  8. E
    Standard memberEladar
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    20 May '11 13:16
    If it isn't a mainstream 1.e4 or 1.d4 people don't think much of it. For some people if it isn't 1.e4 then they don't think much of it.
  9. rc
    Standard memberrobbie carrobie
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    20 May '11 20:1010 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    If it isn't a mainstream 1.e4 or 1.d4 people don't think much of it. For some people if it isn't 1.e4 then they don't think much of it.
    I think , statistically, the KIA arises more often from 1.e4 than from 1.Nf3, although i
    could be wrong. There is an excellent little gambit, the Tennyson Gambit that can
    be played after 1.Nf3 (pretending to go into KIA) ...d5 and 2.e4!? i won a few
    games with it against similarly rated players.

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  10. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    20 May '11 22:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I think , statistically, the KIA arises more often from 1.e4 than from 1.Nf3, although i
    could be wrong. There is an excellent little gambit, the Tennyson Gambit that can
    be played after 1.Nf3 (pretending to go into KIA) ...d5 and 2.e4!? i won a few
    games with it against similarly rated players.

    [pgn]1. e4 {the game begins 1.e4 , but could ...[text shortened]... e} Rc6 27. Rxe7+ {eventually i pluck up the courage to take the knight} Rxe7 28. Rxe7+ 1-0[/pgn]
    That was fun .. think I'll try it soon.
    I normally 'gambit' the other pawn in the Reti after black's d5.
    ie
    1. Nf3 d5
    2. c4 dxc
    3. Na3

    great fun if black tries to hang on to the pawn!
  11. rc
    Standard memberrobbie carrobie
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    20 May '11 22:43
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    That was fun .. think I'll try it soon.
    I normally 'gambit' the other pawn in the Reti after black's d5.
    ie
    1. Nf3 d5
    2. c4 dxc
    3. Na3

    great fun if black tries to hang on to the pawn!
    yes indeed, vewy vewy intwesting wolfie. That is the thing, if black tries to hold on to the pawn. Tennyson himself was quite a colourful character, he was an officer in the Northern army but fancied a southern belle, when American civil war broke out, he defected, rode south and was nearly hung as a spy! He ended up fighting for the south! Anyhow, his gambit has as its mom, the Budapest gambit and is a nice surprise weapon for white. I bought a little booklet from Amazon i think, by a dude called Lutes, its well researched and has many references, mostly historical to the development of the gambit. Anyhow, i am havering, most important thing as you say is to have fun 🙂
  12. t
    Standard membertorten
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    20 May '11 23:20
    Originally posted by plopzilla
    What are the Pros & Cons

    Don't seem to see it much now although its been played by some top players..
    Pro - sound opening,good weapon versus french,can be fun.
    Con - doesn't seem to work so well versus non french

    Here's a nice KIA game played by mere mortal 1800 patzers to illustrate it can lead to fun,exciting attacking chess.
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  13. SubscriberPaul Leggett
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    21 May '11 00:002 edits
    Originally posted by plopzilla
    What are the Pros & Cons

    Don't seem to see it much now although its been played by some top players..
    I have played the KIA almost exclusively over the last 20 years OTB, although I'll play anything here. It has beem particulary valuable to me as an upset weapon against stronger players.

    I'm in the middle of "moving" to a new laptop and I don't have access to most of my games electronically, but here is one of my better recent games. It was the last round, and I had to win to be in the money. I don't have any notes about this in the pgn reader, but I remember thinking in the opening "I've been here before. He thinks he has queenside counterplay, but I can counter it, and when he is done, I have both barrels already loaded and I am firing both of them."

    I'm sure a computer could have done in 35 what I did in 50 OTB, so I'm sure my matchup rate will keep me from being banned!

    This game allowed me to tie for First Place in my section and won me $400.

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  14. SubscriberPaul Leggett
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    21 May '11 00:18
    Originally posted by plopzilla
    What are the Pros & Cons

    Don't seem to see it much now although its been played by some top players..
    Here's another one from the 1. Nf3 move order.

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  15. C
    Standard memberChessPraxis
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    21 May '11 00:37
    Originally posted by plopzilla
    What are the Pros & Cons

    Don't seem to see it much now although its been played by some top players..
    The KIA is fine, as long as you play it as black and call it the KID.
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