18 Mar 08
Originally posted by adam warlockCan you explain the 'queen sacrifice' part? As far as I can see,
1. ... Rxg2+!!
A rook and queen sacrifice.
1 ... Rxg2 2.Kxg2 Qc6? doesn't work because of 3.Bg3.
Black can perhaps go for a draw by repetition after 1. ... Rxg2 2.Kxg2 Bc6 (instead of Qc6) 3.Neg1 Nh4+ 4.Kg3 Nf5 5.Kg2 Nh4+ etc...
But black is better, so 1. ... Rxg2+? doesn't seem to be the best move. What about 1. ... Qc6 to start with? But I don't see anything forced after 2.Ne1.
I must be missing something ...
18 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Mephisto2Well vipiu posted a thread a while ago with this position that occured in a game of him.
Can you explain the 'queen sacrifice' part? As far as I can see,
1 ... Rxg2 2.Kxg2 Qc6? doesn't work because of 3.Bg3.
Black can perhaps go for a draw by repetition after 1. ... Rxg2 2.Kxg2 Bc6 (instead of Qc6) 3.Neg1 Nh4+ 4.Kg3 Nf5 5.Kg2 Nh4+ etc...
But black is better, so 1. ... Rxg2+? doesn't seem to be the best move. What about 1. ... Qc6 to start with? But I don't see anything forced after 2.Ne1.
I must be missing something ...
1. ... Rxg2+!! {looks like black is spoiling a perfect won position with a useless rook sacrifice}
2. Kxg2 {if the king doesn't take rook white is surely lost due to the open g-file and the easyness that can lead his major pieces to the center of action.} Qc6! {quiet move}
2. Bg3 {just like you say} Qxf3+! {Now if the king takes the queen mate is easily forced. Seeing the previous moves that lead to this position is the hard part}
3. Kxf3? Bc6+ {and the white king is just booted up the board with a further knight sac being used}
One variation that I consider interesting is 3. Ng1 {we already saw how deadly the queen sac is so why not double protect the f3 knight? But this fails to } Nh4+! 4. Kh1 {4. Kg3? is violently refuted by f5 threatening mate by f4!} Bc6! {and white is hopeless. I see no forced mate in here but certainly a lot of material will have to be given back by white just to go for a miserable endgame}
I think this is it but if I'm mistaken anywhere just tell me.
18 Mar 08
Originally posted by adam warlockThanks. I didn't look that deep.
Well vipiu posted a thread a while ago with this position that occured in a game of him.
1. ... Rxg2+!! {looks like black is spoiling a perfect won position with a useless rook sacrifice}
2. Kxg2 {if the king doesn't take rook white is surely lost due to the open g-file and the easyness that can lead his major pieces to the center of action.} Qc6! { ...[text shortened]... o go for a miserable endgame}
I think this is it but if I'm mistaken anywhere just tell me.
18 Mar 08
Originally posted by Mephisto2And I remembered a lot of things that were discussed on the vipiu thread or else I wouldn't even dream of the queen sac.
Thanks. I didn't look that deep.
I think that Rxg2+ is something most of us would look to, but seeing the effects of the quite queen move is something way beyond my horizons.
18 Mar 08
Originally posted by adam warlock1.Rb7+ Kc6 [1...Kxb7(c8)? 2.Nd6+] 2. Nd8+ Kd5 [2...Kc5? 3.Rc7+] 3.Rd7+ Kxe5 4.f4+! Qxf4 [4...Kxf4 5.Rd4+ and 5.Nxe6+] 5.Rd4!! and the Black queen is captured.
White to move and go as deep as you can in your analysis. I really liked this problem when I solved it.
[fen]8/2k2N2/4p1p1/4P3/P1q3P1/8/3P1PK1/1R6 w - - 0 1[/fen]
18 Mar 08
Originally posted by bosintangCorrect - here is the whole solution PMed to me by heinzkat
f3? Black is in zugzwang?
1. f3 Ra7/b7/c7/d7
2. g6 Rxg7
3. f7+ Kf8
4. Kh5 Ke7
5. Kg5 (4 and 5 can be interchanged I think, triangulation it is called in English I think) Kf8
6. Kh6 Rxf7
7. gxf7 Kxf7
8. Kg5
White wins.
Author J. Zabinski, 1890.
18 Mar 08
Originally posted by ilywrinI was in the same line at 4. f4 and thinking this is only draw when I saw your answer...
Correct - here is the whole solution PMed to me by heinzkat
1. f3 Ra7/b7/c7/d7
2. g6 Rxg7
3. f7+ Kf8
4. Kh5 Ke7
5. Kg5 (4 and 5 can be interchanged I think, triangulation it is called in English I think) Kf8
6. Kh6 Rxf7
7. gxf7 Kxf7
8. Kg5
White wins.
Author J. Zabinski, 1890.