who can help me like the endgame?

~~robbie carrobie~~

Only Chess

13 Jun '11 19:07

~~robbie carrobie~~

Joined: 26 Aug '07
Moves: 38239

13 Jun '11 19:07

soo many games i lose! two pawns up from the middle game and i end up losing?
How the heck? this happens to me often.

Invert Board PGN Headers

tomtom232
Joined
15 Jun '06
Moves
16334
13 Jun '11 19:14
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
soo many games i lose! two pawns up from the middle game and i end up losing?
How the heck? this happens to me often.

[pgn][Event "Clan challenge"] [Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"] [Date "2011.05.12"] [EndDate "2011.05.30"] [Round "?"] [White "robbie carrobie"] [Black "Sheneval"] [WhiteRating "1728"] [BlackRating "1679"] [WhiteElo "1728"] ...[text shortened]... 62. Bf3g2 Kh3g3 63. Bg2h1 Kg3h2 64. Bh1f3 h3 65. Kf1e2 Kh2g1 0-1[/pgn]
It wasn't the endgame itself... it was those pansy bishops that kept running from the knight... if you're two pawns up then who cares if he exchanges a knight for a bishop!

a general rule of thumb... If you have a pawn plus trade pieces if you have a pawn minus trade pawns and vice versa.
~~robbie carrobie~~
Account suspended
Joined
26 Aug '07
Moves
38239
13 Jun '11 19:164 edits
Originally posted by tomtom232
It wasn't the endgame itself... it was those pansy bishops that kept running from the knight... if you're two pawns up then who cares if he exchanges a knight for a bishop!

a general rule of thumb... If you have a pawn plus trade pieces if you have a pawn minus trade pawns and vice versa.
no way, i had two bishops in an open position, control of the d file, two isolated pawns to aim for, a queenside pawn majority of three verse one, two extra pawns? how the heck did i lose that? I just lose interest near the end. Im crap, thats it. But your advice is good tommo me ol friend, yes, its good indeed.
Eladar
Joined
12 Jul '08
Moves
13814
13 Jun '11 19:221 edit
I think that if you would have played 50. Kf3 things would have gone a bit better. Play the end game with your king!

The king can only move one square at a time, the bishop can travel many. This means the bishop can wait, but the king must be moved!
~~robbie carrobie~~
Account suspended
Joined
26 Aug '07
Moves
38239
13 Jun '11 19:27
Originally posted by Eladar
Take it for what it's worth, but I think your blunder was taking your bishop off the b2-h7 diagonal. As long as your bishop is on that diagonal, your pawn majority is safe from his king.

I think that if you would have played 50. Kf3 things would have gone a bit better. Play the end game with your king!

The king can only move one square at a time, the bishop can travel many. This means the bishop can wait, but the king must be moved!
i was afraid that if i played Kf3 the black king would infiltrate via d4 and destroy my queenside pawns once it reached b2.
Eladar
Joined
12 Jul '08
Moves
13814
13 Jun '11 19:291 edit
For every give there's a take. If his king is taking your pawns, then he can't protect his pawns. You were closer to his pawns than he was to yours. Perhaps he would have won the race, I don't know for sure.

After looking at it, he had your queening square covered with is bishop. Interesting position. I'll have to get off the internet soon. It will be interesting to see what others say.
tomtom232
Joined
15 Jun '06
Moves
16334
13 Jun '11 19:312 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no way, i had two bishops in an open position, control of the d file, two isolated pawns to aim for, a queenside pawn majority of three verse one, two extra pawns? how the heck did i lose that? I just lose interest near the end. Im crap, thats it. But your advice is good tommo me ol friend, yes, its good indeed.
well, like I said you're bishops were pansies simple. But you also didn't try to get your king active with say 36.Ke2 instead of wasting a tempo moving the bishop right smack into the middle of the board where the king belongs.... and then it sat there... and sat there. Also move 38.h3? thats an obvious one. I think its not endgame woes you just think that the game should win itself so you make careless mistakes. Just remember, sometimes you have to win three times in one game. Once in the opening, once in the middle game, and once in the ending.

edit: Move 40.Kf3 threatening the pawn and gaining a tempo then 41.Bd5+ and 42.Ke4
Ragwort
Senecio Jacobaea
Yorkshire
Joined
04 Jul '09
Moves
186275
13 Jun '11 20:02
38. h3? allowed him to win one of the pawns back as well as establish the opposite coloured bishop and pawns ending. A pawn extra in this ending has to be very advantageously placed to win and in 99 cases from a 100 the ending is drawn.

Several of his moves prior to move 38 seem to me to be geared toward this idea.

I don't suppose that much that happened after really made a great deal of difference.
Varenka
Joined
21 Sep '05
Moves
27507
13 Jun '11 20:10
Originally posted by robbie carrobie

White to play.

This is an instructive position that needs to be understood. So, White has a won position - nothing surprising there. But what is Black's most hopeful plan of a draw? I think it's to hope for an opposite coloured bishop ending, which are notorious for being drawn even with two extra pawns. So Black would like to exchange his knight for White's *dark* squared bishop in most cases.

With that in mind, White has to be careful of what Rowson calls "jam lust" in The Seven Deadly Chess Sins. This may happen if White tries to maintain every "advantage" he has and isn't willing to compromise in order to keep things simple. In particular, White can keep the bishop pair and still win, but is it necessary? Remember, you don't have to blugeon your opponent to death with a sledge hammer - as long as you maintain enough of a winning advantage, keep things simple.

36.Ke2

White activates his worst placed piece and puts the question to Black: you can remove my bishop pair but the hope of opposite coloured bishops goes out the window for you.

Your 36.Be4 is still winning, but maybe it was the reasons for playing it that then caused you to try too hard at maintaining the bishop pair and ultimately missing a tactic.
tharkesh
Joined
04 Sep '10
Moves
5716
14 Jun '11 00:082 edits
you ask, how to like the endgame...because you seem to loose motivation at a certain point...maybe because you consider all things being 'said' already.

some motivation for you, maybe:

it is the time to make the king shine! with every piece vanishing, his power increases and it is sometimes so pleasing to see it moved by an experienced player. finally the player manifests, so to say, in the figure of the king. the player has to come down to the board, if the pieces can't makeit, the mighty one has to struck!

a bit pathetic maybe. another motivation: your search for winning patterns becomes a different thing. usually it is now time to protect your pawns more then ever, mating becomes not the immediate point (but of course, take it, if laying in your way 😉 ), but surviving until the back-up forces arrive, the pawn-promotion, for having fought a long war... try to find the holes now for the race of the pawns. together with the might of the king, chess in the endgame is a different chess then the mating-chess-middle-game.

edit: thats also why ke2 in the above position is so valuable!
SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
Joined
11 Apr '07
Moves
92274
14 Jun '11 00:311 edit

38.h3? was a mistake. Not only do you lose one of your extra pawns, but Black gets an opposite color Bishop ending. As already pointed out, those are extremely drawish. Instead, 38.Bg3 should have been played.

Here's where the game was lost ... White defended the h-pawn with 60.Bg2?? falling into zugzwang after black's reply 60...Kh2! Instead, 60.Bf5 would have drawn easily. White just marks time moving his Bishop along the c8-h3 diagonal, keeping a permanent eye on the h3 pawn. White's King sits on f1 for eternity, stopping the f2 pawn, and Black can't budge him. Finally, if the Black King wanders over to the Queenside:

White simply plays Ba4 here and there is no zugzwang after ...Kb4 because white can just move his King [say, Ke2].

Black has no way to make progress, and the game is drawn.
tomtom232
Joined
15 Jun '06
Moves
16334
14 Jun '11 00:351 edit
Originally posted by SwissGambit
[fen]3b4/5k1p/6p1/p3p3/2P1BBn1/1P6/P4PPP/5K2 w - - 0 38[/fen]
38.h3? was a mistake. Not only do you lose one of your extra pawns, but Black gets an opposite color Bishop ending. As already pointed out, those are extremely drawish. Instead, 38.Bg3 should have been played.

[fen]8/8/8/p1b5/2P1B2p/1P4kP/5p2/5K2 w - - 0 60[/fen]
Here's where the game was just move his King [say, Ke2].

Black has no way to make progress, and the game is drawn.
A draw is a pretty sad ending after being two pawns up and having all the guns but definitely better than losing.
SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
Joined
11 Apr '07
Moves
92274
14 Jun '11 00:38
Originally posted by tomtom232
A draw is a pretty sad ending after being two pawns up and having all the guns but definitely better than losing.
Yeah, you have to stop regretting the missed chances of the past and make the best of your current situation.
tomtom232
Joined
15 Jun '06
Moves
16334
14 Jun '11 00:45
Originally posted by SwissGambit
Yeah, you have to stop regretting the missed chances of the past and make the best of your current situation.
Ha another parallel chess has to life.
A Unique Nickname
Joined
10 Jan '08
Moves
16950
14 Jun '11 02:43
my cat could've converted that endgame into victory. and he's only a 1250 rating... still not bad for a cat though. he was second in the regional cat championships.

Only Chess Forum

who can help me like the endgame?