Originally posted by AllderdiceIn order to fold a paper sufficiantly many times to reach the sun you have to have a paper that is of a size halfways to the sun, 75 millon kilometres, to begin with. The surface of the eartch is not enough.
The thickness is going to increase exponentially, although the area would also decrease in the same way. But if you take a large enough peoce of paper - MUCH larger than the surface of the Earth itself you'll be able to fold it more than enough to reach the value of 1 a. u. (9.2*10^7 mi).
Proved at mythbusters.
Do the same method by me described and you will see that otherwise it is impossible.
The post that was quoted here has been removedWell, Im one of those that watches MythBusters on the Discovery channel. They went to a aircraft hanger at NASA and constructed a huge piece of paper (to scale to an 8.5*11) and the folded it either 11 or 12 times (forgot that small detail).... But the whole Idea of folding 50 times to reach the sun....it takes 7 years to reach MARS, and thats very close compaired to the distance to the Sun.
Originally posted by AgtSmittyI gave up my faith in Mythbuster after they 'proved' that if you run through rain, you get wetter than slow walking.
Well, Im one of those that watches MythBusters on the Discovery channel. They went to a aircraft hanger at NASA and constructed a huge piece of paper (to scale to an 8.5*11) and the folded it either 11 or 12 times (forgot that small detail).... But the whole Idea of folding 50 times to reach the sun....it takes 7 years to reach MARS, and thats very close compaired to the distance to the Sun.
So if I dash at 300 km/s from here to the other end of the street, I'll get wetter than when I walk 1 mm/hour? Supposing it rains for weeks on end of course. Mythbusters is nice, but they suck at detecting flaws in their proofs.
Originally posted by AgtSmittyAs I demonstrated with a square meter 0.1 millimeter thick piece of paper, I showed that 10 times is maximem, probably less than that in reality, eleven times is impossible.
Well, Im one of those that watches MythBusters on the Discovery channel. They went to a aircraft hanger at NASA and constructed a huge piece of paper (to scale to an 8.5*11) and the folded it either 11 or 12 times (forgot that small detail).... But the whole Idea of folding 50 times to reach the sun....it takes 7 years to reach MARS, and thats very close compaired to the distance to the Sun.
Show me where I was wrong and I'll believe it.
Perhaps Discovery Channel can fold a 10 by 10 meter piece of paper 11 times but can they, even in theory, fold it in 50 times? I say it is completely thepretical impossible. Think for yourself!
Do your math properly and you will convince yourself that it is impossible.
The minimum distance to Mars is 0.6 AU, it is not 'very' close compared to the distance to the Sun. Most of its orbit around the Sun, it is more distant to the Sun than the distance to Sun. But this is only a comment, it is off topic.
Ok...
1. Avg. distance between the Sun and the Earth is 92 000 000 mi.
2. Each folding of a paper doubles its "height". So, H=t*2^n, n=number of folds, t=thickness of one piece of paper.
3. 92000000mi*1609m/mi=148028000000 m. t=.00005 m (thickness of A4 format sheet)
4. plug in&solve:
148028000000m=.00005m*2^n
2^n=2960560000000000
n=log(2960560000000000)/log(2) = 51.3 folds - actually you'd need 52 folds to reach up there.
Now, let's continue. As the height increases, the area decreases. So, as you unfold it, the area should increase, A=2^51.3=2772290760589716m^2.
Radius of the Earth is 6.37*10^6m, assuming that it is a perfect sphere, A=4*[pi]*R^2=509904363781790 m^2
2772290760589716m^2/509904363781790 m^2 ~5.5
You need a piece of paper more than 5 times as large as the surface of the Earth to make it reach the Sun.
Originally posted by AllderdiceInteresting, but all you show is that you know how to work with a calculator.
Ok...
1. Avg. distance between the Sun and the Earth is 92 000 000 mi.
2. Each folding of a paper doubles its "height". So, H=t*2^n, n=number of folds, t=thickness of one piece of paper.
3. 92000000mi*1609m/mi=148028000000 m. t=.00005 m (thickness of A4 format sheet)
4. plug in&solve:
148028000000m=.00005m*2^n
2^n=2960560000000000
n=log(2960560 ...[text shortened]... ce of paper more than 5 times as large as the surface of the Earth to make it reach the Sun.
Try it yourself - fold a piece of paper as many times as you can. How many times could you fold it? Why couldn't you fold it once more, whatwould happen? What was the relation to the thickness of the stack of paper and the size across the stack of folded paper? Do you recognize any important properties?
Now, why don't you think the same thing will happen if you try to fold a fivefold earth surface sized paper the 50th time when your stack of paper will reach the sun?
I don't have to use a calculater to realize it is not possible. Why do you?
Originally posted by FabianFnasYou're funny😉 I never said that it's possible, and just proved that it is not. If you're trying to prove me wrong, then you're saying that it IS possible, which doesn't agree with what you've said before. I suggest you choose one point of view and prove it, not both.
Interesting, but all you show is that you know how to work with a calculator.
Try it yourself - fold a piece of paper as many times as you can. How many times could you fold it? Why couldn't you fold it once more, whatwould happen? What was the relation to the thickness of the stack of paper and the size across the stack of folded paper? Do you recogni ...[text shortened]... each the sun?
I don't have to use a calculater to realize it is not possible. Why do you?
If you want a debate - sure.
1. when reaching a distance close to Mercury's orbit the stack'd start burning.
2. To fold it that many times you need equipment that is able to lift billions of tons of paper concentrated in a very small area, which is impossible nowadays.
3. Even if you're able to do it, you need time, meanwhile the Earth keeps rotating, and you'd destroy your stack by hitting it into one of the minor planets (asteroid belt)
4. The stack would have approximately the mass of Venus, which is not far away from the mass of the Earth, such concentration will start attracting matter like the Earths' nucleus, we'll get 1 planet with 2 centers of mass, which is impossible thus resulting the shift in Earth's translational and rotational periods, and, finally, in its orbit.
5. After leaving the atmosphere the papers will be compressed by the vacuum, putting the olds together, making it impossible to reach the Sun with that many layers.
I hope, I satisfied your curiosity?
Originally posted by AllderdiceHehe, yes, you're right it is not possible - in reality. 😀 We're agree on that.
You're funny😉 I never said that it's possible, and just proved that it is not. If you're trying to prove me wrong, then you're saying that it IS possible, which doesn't agree with what you've said before. I suggest you choose one point of view and prove it, not both.
If you want a debate - sure.
1. when reaching a distance close to Mercury's orbi ...[text shortened]... ble to reach the Sun with that many layers.
I hope, I satisfied your curiosity?
But are we agree on that it is not possible in theory either? I say it's not possible.
I say you haven't tried folding an ordinary paper yet. If you do you realize certain things that makes the folding a piece of paper 50 times impossible. Try it and see how many times you can fold and you'll see for your self.
You don't even have to think about temperature, gravitation and the other practical implications about having to fold a interplanetary sized paper. 😵
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Originally posted by FabianFnasOk... well, I got 7 folds with ordinary paper and 8 with a thin newspaper.
Hehe, yes, you're right it is not possible - in reality. 😀 We're agree on that.
But are we agree on that it is not possible in theory either? I say it's not possible.
I say you haven't tried folding an ordinary paper yet. If you do you realize certain things that makes the folding a piece of paper 50 times impossible. Try it and see how many times and the other practical implications about having to fold a interplanetary sized paper. 😵
Conclusion: the thickness and the size DO make a difference. I still think that it is possible to fold an enormous size of paper 52 times, although it has to meet certain requirements (thickness, etc.) In theory, if you don't pay attention to my 5 impossibility points, it is possible to fold a paper 50 times.
IMHO.
EDIT: Tried with a roll of toilet paper od a length of about 15 meters. Got 11 folds
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Originally posted by TheMaster37They didn't make the disclaimer "within the same amount of time"? That doesn't sound like a mistake the MB would make.
I gave up my faith in Mythbuster after they 'proved' that if you run through rain, you get wetter than slow walking.
So if I dash at 300 km/s from here to the other end of the street, I'll get wetter than when I walk 1 mm/hour? Supposing it rains for weeks on end of course. Mythbusters is nice, but they suck at detecting flaws in their proofs.
EDIT - Looks like they kept the distance standard, and not the time - which is more realistic. They also revisited the myth and found they had made a mistake.