1. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    18 Feb '12 01:06
    Does anyone know the origin of the 24 hour day?

    I was told by a friend that captain James Cook ,(who is said to have discovered Australia), was the first to invent this idea. Up until then we only had two 12 hour periods to make a "day".

    I thought it had been around longer than that, but have had no luck in finding an older link that Captain Cook.

    It is certainly a revolutionary idea which has been used by many since it's invention.
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    18 Feb '12 03:101 edit
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Please stay out of my thread or do some leg-work for me by trying to google it.

    Your comment makes absolutely no sense. I have a serious enquiry to the science forum.
    Remember where you are. This is not spirituality . I remember when Dasa came onto the science forum with the same disasterous results.
    You have already humiliated yourself in your evolution thread, which I thought would take a page or 2, but after 10 pages , and your constant refusal to actually try to understand, you are either a liar, a troll or a bit of both.

    To me you sound like someone who has a severe learning disability. Absolutely no pun intended .
  3. SubscriberKewpie
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    18 Feb '12 06:241 edit
    The whole point of having a Spirituality Forum is so that belief systems are kept separate from factual studies, isn't it? I've been disappointed that so many Science Forum threads have been contaminated by the old arguments. As if anyone was ever persuaded to change his/her beliefs by rational arguments and marshalling of facts - but the same old trolls just keep on trying.

    I have been unable to locate any reference to a starting point for 24-hour clocks, although Wikipedia reports clocks of 6,8,10 and 24 hours in addition to the "normal" 12 hour clock:
    "During the French Revolution in 1793, in connection with its Republican calendar, France attempted to introduce a decimal time system.[3] This had 10 decimal hours in the day, 100 decimal minutes per hour, and 100 decimal seconds per minute. Therefore the decimal hour was more than twice as long as the present hour, the decimal minute was slightly longer than the present minute and the decimal second was slightly shorter than the present second. Clocks were manufactured with this alternate face, usually combined with traditional hour markings. However, it didn't catch on, and France discontinued the mandatory use of decimal time on 7 April 1795, although some French cities used decimal time until 1801."

    I could not find any information on why a single rotation of the earth (a solar day) should ever have been divided into 24 hours in the first place. Why 24?
  4. SubscriberKewpie
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    18 Feb '12 06:47
    On further checking I found this, which seems to indicate that the 24-hour pattern came first, divided into 12 hours before noon and 12 hours after noon:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_hour_analog_dial
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    18 Feb '12 07:22
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    The whole point of having a Spirituality Forum is so that belief systems are kept separate from factual studies, isn't it? I've been disappointed that so many Science Forum threads have been contaminated by the old arguments. As if anyone was ever persuaded to change his/her beliefs by rational arguments and marshalling of facts - but the same old trolls ju ...[text shortened]... th (a solar day) should ever have been divided into 24 hours in the first place. Why 24?
    I have read elsewhere that the 24 (hour) division went back to an Egyptian calender,(although I cant find a link yet), where it was linked with other esoteric ideas and such.

    I guess at the end of the day people went with what was most convenient and practical.
    The decimal hour (that France proposed) seems too long, and impractical.

    It has been said that people's brains work better in periods of 50-55 minutes, hence at high school we had 50 minute periods for our classes, with 5 minute breaks.
    The brain takes in information well for about this period and then needs a rest to function best,(or so one report I read stipulated).
    I would go along with this from personal experience.
  6. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    18 Feb '12 07:24
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    On further checking I found this, which seems to indicate that the 24-hour pattern came first, divided into 12 hours before noon and 12 hours after noon:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_hour_analog_dial
    Yes, but my friend thought that before Captain Cook you would just have 1 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon whereas he started calling 1 in the afternoon 13:00 o'clock and so on.
  7. SubscriberKewpie
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    18 Feb '12 11:332 edits
    I've been hunting through Captain Cook's Journals but everywhere the references are to the 12-hour clock, not a single reference did I find otherwise.

    Captain Cook did not in fact discover Australia, that honour goes to a Dutchman in 1606 and several of his compatriots, but they saw no need to do a land-grab. The Dutch mapped the north and west coastlines, but these were somewhat uninviting areas and not half as promising as east-coast Botany Bay where Cook made landfall on behalf of the British.

    According to one source I found, the 24-hour system was the brainchild of Sandford Fleming in the 1870s, a century after the voyage of Captain Cook:
    http://homepage.mac.com/pete.boardman/Sites/24hourclock/files/countingtime.pdf

    This publication is a lengthy history of the process of introduction to the 24-hour clock, and includes a reference to public support by the publisher of "Cooks Continental Timetable" for its use in railway timetables. I suggest that this is the origin of the erroneous linking of James Cook to the 24-hour clock.
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    18 Feb '12 13:55
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    I've been hunting through Captain Cook's Journals but everywhere the references are to the 12-hour clock, not a single reference did I find otherwise.

    Captain Cook did not in fact discover Australia, that honour goes to a Dutchman in 1606 and several of his compatriots, but they saw no need to do a land-grab. The Dutch mapped the north and west coastli ...[text shortened]... suggest that this is the origin of the erroneous linking of James Cook to the 24-hour clock.
    Firstly I like to point out that in my op I mentioned that "he was said to have discovered Australia", not that he was the first to do so.

    Secondly I would like to thank you for your research. My limited credit often leaves me with not much room for checking out links . But you seemed to have found the erroneous linking of Captian Cook with "Cooks Continental Timetable".

    the friend who told me this is relatively intelligent , but when I tell him this,I'm sure he will not accept your findings as once he has made up his mind about something it is quite hard to change 🙂
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    18 Feb '12 15:02
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I have read elsewhere that the 24 (hour) division went back to an Egyptian calender,(although I cant find a link yet), where it was linked with other esoteric ideas and such.
    Babylonian and/or Chaldean. Like the 360-degree circle. And perhaps there were mystical reasons, but the main idea behind those numbers is their large number of small whole divisors. 24 hours is easy to divide in 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 and 12 parts. If you'd divide the day into 20 hours, you'd only have 2, 4, 5 and 10 as divisors. That's more useful for counting on your fingers, but less useful for astrology and astronomy, which is why these things were (semi-) standardised in the first place.

    Richard
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    18 Feb '12 19:10
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I was told by a friend that captain James Cook ,(who is said to have discovered Australia), was the first to invent this idea. Up until then we only had two 12 hour periods to make a "day".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock#History
    Does not tell us a lot, but it does say:
    The 24-hour time system has been used for centuries,


    It also links to ancient clocks such as this one:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orloj
    from 1410 that pre-dates James Cook by at least 300 years.
  11. SubscriberKewpie
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    18 Feb '12 23:292 edits
    There are two different things being discussed here. The origin of the concept of a day being 24 hours long is certainly ancient, there are many references to that fact. The concept of having a single 24-hour measurement in everyday use rather than one of two 12-hour measurements is much more recent, and appears to have been initiated to provide more orderly and precise timetables in the railway era of the 19th century, along with usage in navigation and later the military. It has been adopted since then as a standard in most countries.

    It was interesting to read the British parliamentary discussions in the 1920s, where the point was raised that females weren't mathematically competent and wouldn't be able to manage numbers above 12. Reminded me of the "sun will fade the curtains more quickly" argument used against the introduction of daylight saving time in Queensland in the 1960s and 70s.
  12. Standard membermenace71
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    19 Feb '12 17:50
    http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=594



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock


    I remembered it has something to do with the earth's rotation but still fascinating. I have a world clock app on my phone and it's to see other places and their times. Everything is either + or - Greenwich. I use military time or 24 hour time just because it actually makes more sense.

    Manny
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    19 Feb '12 23:21
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    There are two different things being discussed here. The origin of the concept of a day being 24 hours long is certainly ancient, there are many references to that fact. The concept of having a single 24-hour measurement in everyday use rather than one of two 12-hour measurements is much more recent, and appears to have been initiated to provide more orderl ...[text shortened]... nt used against the introduction of daylight saving time in Queensland in the 1960s and 70s.
    And the 80's and 90's😞
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    20 Feb '12 00:50
    Originally posted by menace71
    http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=594



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock


    I remembered it has something to do with the earth's rotation but still fascinating. I have a world clock app on my phone and it's to see other places and their times. Everything is either + or - Greenwich. I use military time or 24 hour time just because it actually makes more sense.

    Manny
    The truth can not be told because this is the science forum.
  15. SubscriberKewpie
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    20 Feb '12 01:36
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    And the 80's and 90's😞
    You mean they"re STILL saying it?????
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