A slightly biased attempt to discredit evolutio...

Originally posted by KellyJay
Gravity affects everything in our physical world, that does not mean
that time is effected unless you can touch time, I suggest what you
could be looking at is simply the effects of gravity upon our measuring
devices.
Kelly

…Gravity affects everything in our physical world, that does not mean
that time is effected unless you can TOUCH time,… (my emphasis)

You don’t need to “touch” something to effect it. A familiar example of this is when one magnet makes another magnet move without one touching the other. But a better observable example would be when two particles are at a great distance apart and yet they effect each other due to quantum entanglement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

…I suggest what you could be looking at is simply the effects of gravity upon our measuring devices. ..…

You are obviously conveniently and completely ignoring the posts that had completely demolished that argument of yours a long time ago.

How do you explain away the wobble in Mercury’s orbit relativity? :

http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/merc_adv.htm

This is clearly caused by the sun’s gravity bending both space and TIME to create this observable effect
-absolutely NO “effects of gravity upon our measuring devices” there!

Originally posted by KellyJay
Gravity affects everything in our physical world, that does not mean
that time is effected unless you can touch time, I suggest what you
could be looking at is simply the effects of gravity upon our measuring
devices.
Kelly

It is much more fundamental than that. If you have some evidence otherwise, rather than a 'I think its just the blah blah blah effect' and not variable time flow, show me the money. You need to really study this subject which has been mapped out by some brilliant people a lot smarter than you or I. You really should pay attention to the brilliance in people. You have no problem starting your car up, you don't denigrate the engineers and physicists who invented it, but if you can't see it or smell it, it is out of your intellectual range. You can't see a radio wave but you sure as heck can know they are there, just stick your hand in an operating microwave oven if you don't think they exist cause you can't see it.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Before you start proving your point on time changing, define it for me.
Kelly

Time is the ticks on the Plank clock, each click is about 1E-43 second. That is the fundamental lower limit of time because it is quantized, that is its like frames of a movie, each step is allowing a jump from one event to another, it's what connects cause and effect and flows in one direction, past to future. The thing that makes it variable is the fundamental units of spacetime can separate differently, like frames of a movie getting squashed together or each frame pulled apart so they come at different rates. The glue that holds dimensions together is gravity, that is the reason gravity is so weak compared to magnetic or electric forces, a simple refrigerator magnet can hold off the combined gravitational attraction of the entire planet with ease. That gravity is a field line that is intricately connected to each hack of plank units. So time is like the frames of a movie and can be squashed together or pulled apart by gravity and mass. Mass tells space how to bend and gravity tells mass and time how to flow.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…Gravity affects everything in our physical world, that does not mean
that time is effected unless you can TOUCH time,… (my emphasis)

You don’t need to “touch” something to effect it. A familiar example of this is when one magnet makes another magnet move without one touching the other. But a better observable example would be when two pa ...[text shortened]... e this observable effect
-absolutely NO “effects of gravity upon our measuring devices” there![/b]

…How do you explain away the wobble in Mercury’s orbit relativity? : .. ..…

My mistake: That should have been:

“How do you explain away the wobble in Mercury’s orbit just as predicted by relativity? “

Originally posted by sonhouse
Time is the ticks on the Plank clock, each click is about 1E-43 second. That is the fundamental lower limit of time because it is quantized, that is its like frames of a movie, each step is allowing a jump from one event to another, it's what connects cause and effect and flows in one direction, past to future. The thing that makes it variable is the fundam ...[text shortened]... by gravity and mass. Mass tells space how to bend and gravity tells mass and time how to flow.

Am I to understand your definition that until Max Planck gave us
this unit of measurement we didn’t have time? Does that unit
of measurement represent a constant? Basically you are giving me
a unit of measurement and that unit is what you use to define time?
I know I’m getting something your telling me wrong, because you
seem to be saying two different things.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Am I to understand your definition that until Max Planck gave us
this unit of measurement we didn’t have time? Does that unit
of measurement represent a constant? Basically you are giving me
a unit of measurement and that unit is what you use to define time?
I know I’m getting something your telling me wrong, because you
seem to be saying two different things.
Kelly

Here we go... again...

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Here we go... again...

No, here we go again sort of implies you get involved in these
discussions which isn’t really the case, typically you only insult
and do not do much else. Others actually have thoughts and
points to introduce you hardly ever do anything other than insult
or attempt to marginalize people you disagree with.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, here we go again sort of implies you get involved in these
discussions which isn’t really the case, typically you only insult
and do not do much else. Others actually have thoughts and
points to introduce you hardly ever do anything other than insult
or attempt to marginalize people you disagree with.
Kelly

I don't want to get involved in any discussion with you involving science, that's all. But I study your retorics, from that point of view your postings are very interesting. And I see a pattern. Hence my comment "Here we go... again..." Because that is what it is, same pattern again.

You don't know much about science, yet you have very strong opinions about it. You don't believe in the answers, you discredit the answers as you know more than others. You don't, believe me, you don't.

Do you really belive that before the era of Max Planck there were no time in universe? That before the definition of 'something' this 'something' didn't exist? I don't think you are stupid, it's just KellyJay retorics.

What do you hope to achive with this retorics? To win the discussions? Or to learn something? You certainly do not have anything in science to teach sonhouse, he is superiour to you in this area.

So what is your point? What is your opinion in the matter? Do you have any? Do you know yourself? Or do you just use KJ retorics to win the discussion? Please, tell us...

Originally posted by KellyJay
Am I to understand your definition that until Max Planck gave us
this unit of measurement we didn’t have time? Does that unit
of measurement represent a constant? Basically you are giving me
a unit of measurement and that unit is what you use to define time?
I know I’m getting something your telling me wrong, because you
seem to be saying two different things.
Kelly

You didn't read my post very well. I said that the fundamental underpinnings of space-time show that those Plank hacks can be squashed together or torn apart, that's my interpretation of what is going on with the variable time rate. You notice we use the term Space-time because they are interwoven in such a way as when you affect one you affect the other.
Concentrate mass together and time slows down. Go faster and time slows down. I was using the movie clip analogy to try to have you visualize what is going on. Time is a variable, there is no doubt about that. That is what Einstein taught us and been independently verified over and over in hundreds of experiments over the last century. Remember, it's 103 years now since Big Al published his first paper on special relativity. I assume therefore you don't believe it that stuff either. BTW, why do you assume that before Max figured stuff out, there was no time? Why would you make that assumption? That one went over my head. If someone figures out the boiling point of water at sea level, and defines temperature, does that mean that before that discovery there was no boiling water? Is that what you are implying here?

Originally posted by sonhouse
You didn't read my post very well. I said that the fundamental underpinnings of space-time show that those Plank hacks can be squashed together or torn apart, that's my interpretation of what is going on with the variable time rate. You notice we use the term Space-time because they are interwoven in such a way as when you affect one you affect the other.
n that before that discovery there was no boiling water? Is that what you are implying here?

Yes I read it; yes I got it that you implied they can be pushed
together and moved a part, and no I do not think that is a good
answer to what time is. I can alter any electronic clock by screwing
around with its power, and we can alter the flow of sand through moving
through an hour glass, we can cause the stress of a wind up clock to
become inconsistent as well. Doing those things do not actually
alter time itself it only alters the means of measuring time, it would
no different than damaging a ruler and saying distance has changed
if a plastic ruler got stretched out or compressed from it’s originally
designed shape.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
You didn't read my post very well. I said that the fundamental underpinnings of space-time show that those Plank hacks can be squashed together or torn apart, that's my interpretation of what is going on with the variable time rate. You notice we use the term Space-time because they are interwoven in such a way as when you affect one you affect the other.
...[text shortened]... n that before that discovery there was no boiling water? Is that what you are implying here?

My complaint with your answer is that it seems that you were shooting
for a constant rate of measurement, then you are telling me time
changes if you put it under a stress! So do photons speed up and slow
down and the photon movement is time itself? I was not aware that
time and the photon were linked together that deeply, I have heard
others just call time the passing of moments which doesn’t have
anything to do with photons. So if time is the measurement photons
movement, so be it, but I think you have missed the mark on
defining time.
Kelly

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I don't want to get involved in any discussion with you involving science, that's all. But I study your retorics, from that point of view your postings are very interesting. And I see a pattern. Hence my comment "Here we go... again..." Because that is what it is, same pattern again.

You don't know much about science, yet you have very strong opinions ...[text shortened]... ourself? Or do you just use KJ retorics to win the discussion? Please, tell us...

No, here we go again sort of implies you get involved in these
discussions which isn’t really the case, typically you only insult
and do not do much else. Others actually have thoughts and
points to introduce you hardly ever do anything other than insult
or attempt to marginalize people you disagree with.

Just more of the same.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
My complaint with your answer is that it seems that you were shooting
for a constant rate of measurement, then you are telling me time
changes if you put it under a stress! So do photons speed up and slow
down and the photon movement is time itself? I was not aware that
time and the photon were linked together that deeply, I have heard
others just call ...[text shortened]... ment photons
movement, so be it, but I think you have missed the mark on
defining time.
Kelly

…: ..So do photons speed up and slow down AND the photon movement is time itself? ..… (my emphasis)

He obviously didn’t say nor imply either of those things. Photons never change their speed in a vacuum because the speed of light in a vacuum is constant for all observers.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes I read it; yes I got it that you implied they can be pushed
together and moved a part, and no I do not think that is a good
answer to what time is. I can alter any electronic clock by screwing
around with its power, and we can alter the flow of sand through moving
through an hour glass, we can cause the stress of a wind up clock to
become inconsist ...[text shortened]...
if a plastic ruler got stretched out or compressed from it’s originally
designed shape.
Kelly

..Doing those things do not actually alter time itself it only alters the means of measuring time..…

I presume that what you are suggesting here yet again is that time dilation effects are not real and any measurement that shows otherwise are just as a result of “something effecting the measuring interments”. Yet again I point out that that argument of yours has been totally and utterly demolished a long time ago as I pointed out in the bottom half of my post on page 36 of this thread. You don’t need a measuring instrument to measure time to observe dilation effects -you only have to look at Mercury’s wobble to observe those effects -and here is the proof of that amongst OTHER proofs of time dilation effects:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity

-to get to the bit about Mercury, just scroll slightly down until you see the title: “Perihelion precession of Mercury”

You are obviously are not responding to that post or any other post that demolishes you arguments because you are simply unable to concede when you are clearly wrong.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…: ..So do photons speed up and slow down AND the photon movement is time itself? ..… (my emphasis)

He obviously didn’t say nor imply either of those things. Photons never change their speed in a vacuum because the speed of light in a vacuum is constant for all observers.[/b]

Okay, what is time it has nothing to do with Photons! That was the
question, photons are now mute to the topic, Define time? That was
all I wea asking, I'll ignore and forget about photons.
Kelly