Abiogenesis and evolution: James Tour

@KellyJay
Another religious talk, he is pretty obvious from the start of his 'speech'.
Sure he may be a world class scientist but you won't find him giving talks like that at a real science conference.

Nothing about the content only the person, in other words, zzzz.

@KellyJay
His content was all life is SO amazing, it could never have happened without a creator. That is the bottom line. It was not a science talk and you know that full well.

@kellyjay said
Nothing about the content only the person, in other words, zzzz.

"A cell is a factory, a machine" is a metaphor, a figure of speech. Don't take it literally. This figure of speech prejudices his whole 'take' on life, because a machine is designed, so he thinks molecules must be 'designed', too. Begging the question much.

He makes the same mistake as many other creationists: confuses evolution with how life got started. Evolution does not explain how life got started and is not intended to explain this.

"It [chemistry] didn't have a target" is not a problem, not a counter-argument against a purely natural explanation. Many other molecules were sorted and mixed over billions of years which did not become life. So what? This is also not any argument why a purely natural explanation for the origin of life is impossible. He simply assumes that complex molecules can't happen without design. Begging the question much. Organic molecules have been detected in outer space and on comets. Reason enough to keep looking for purely naturalistic explanations.

He makes the same argument over and over: there is no mind, so how could it have happened without a target? It's bosh. There are only about 100 elements. Shuffle them long enough and every possible combination will eventually happen, somewhere in this vast universe. The universe is approx. 14 billion years old (except you don't believe that, do you?). Plenty of time to shuffle 100 or so elements until the "royal flush" is dealt, on some planet, somewhere. We just got lucky.

Some things about cells we do not understand, does not imply that only a transcendental cause could possibly explain what is going on. It just means we haven't yet found the right natural cause. Long ago we did not know what causes eclipses or infectious diseases. We found out eventually, and it wasn't godidit. Keep looking.

@moonbus
One of the issues he did mention was about how life started on Earth, he said, it could be from another planet, there is a theory life got kickstarted by a meteorite coming from Mars where presumably a billion years ago the was life there and a meter crash took some of that material to Earth.
So he mentioned that idea or that aliens brought life to Earth, then he said so what made the aliens? How did THEIR life start?

So he segways into the idea only GOD could have come up with all the biology to kick start life.

Of course he would NEVER go into the idea, ok, then where did GOD come from?

Is God alive? If so, how did he come about?

Of course THAT issue will never be taken seriously by anyone duped into organized religions.

@sonhouse

I think there is an even more fundamental logical error in creationism than ‘where did God from’? I mean, as an explanation, ‘God did it’ does not actually explain anything at all. Not the origin of life, the origin of the universe, or a plague, or an earthquake, or anything at all. An explanation must be less mysterious than the thing explained, in order to be explanatory, not more so. God is the most mysterious thing there is. So ‘explaining’ the origin of life, the origin of the universe, or a plague, by saying’God did it’, is to replace one mystery by an even bigger one. That’s not even bad science; it’s no sort of science at all. I don’t care how many university degrees this professor has; he’s found something he can’t explain and run behind his mommy’s apron. The right scientific attitude to something we can’t explain is, keep looking.

I suppose some Creationist might try to argue that God put organic molecules on comets just so we would see how great God is. Let them believe that if they want to, but as an explanation, it's bosh. The fact that organics have been detected on comets and even in interstellar space contradicts the professor's claim that they (organic molecules) are especially improbable or very difficult to combine.

@moonbus said
"A cell is a factory, a machine" is a metaphor, a figure of speech. Don't take it literally. This figure of speech prejudices his whole 'take' on life, because a machine is designed, so he thinks molecules must be 'designed', too. Begging the question much.

He makes the same mistake as many other creationists: confuses evolution with how life got started. Evolution does no ...[text shortened]... auses eclipses or infectious diseases. We found out eventually, and it wasn't godidit. Keep looking.

You realize what you said about time has been debunked big time, don't you?

@moonbus said
"A cell is a factory, a machine" is a metaphor, a figure of speech. Don't take it literally. This figure of speech prejudices his whole 'take' on life, because a machine is designed, so he thinks molecules must be 'designed', too. Begging the question much.

He makes the same mistake as many other creationists: confuses evolution with how life got started. Evolution does no ...[text shortened]... auses eclipses or infectious diseases. We found out eventually, and it wasn't godidit. Keep looking.

A chemical reaction doesn't know when to stop it will continue to react till the material is used up, and no target is a big deal, so when it's reached it doesn't know when to stop. The tar substance in the Miller experiment is a prime example of that, you may have trace amounts of required material, but not in the right form, and nowhere near the right concentrations. As far as the mixing until you get it right, once the material you start with is used up there is no try again.

@sonhouse said
@moonbus
One of the issues he did mention was about how life started on Earth, he said, it could be from another planet, there is a theory life got kickstarted by a meteorite coming from Mars where presumably a billion years ago the was life there and a meter crash took some of that material to Earth.
So he mentioned that idea or that aliens brought life to Earth, then he ...[text shortened]... out?

Of course THAT issue will never be taken seriously by anyone duped into organized religions.

No need to talk about where God came from since by definition God is eternal and always was. So to talk about His starting is to enter into a conversation about a logical conflict, there did the always was, begin.

@moonbus said
@sonhouse

I think there is an even more fundamental logical error in creationism than ‘where did God from’? I mean, as an explanation, ‘God did it’ does not actually explain anything at all. Not the origin of life, the origin of the universe, or a plague, or an earthquake, or anything at all. An explanation must be less mysterious than the thing explained, in order to be e ...[text shortened]... fessor's claim that they (organic molecules) are especially improbable or very difficult to combine.

Do you think time plus chance did it?

@kellyjay said

No need to talk about where God came from since by definition God is eternal and always was. So to talk about His starting is to enter into a conversation about a logical conflict, where did the always was, begin.

Sorry, just realized I said there instead of where.

@kellyjay said
No need to talk about where God came from since by definition God is eternal and always was. So to talk about His starting is to enter into a conversation about a logical conflict, where did the always was, begin.

Sorry, just realized I said there instead of where.

This is just the same infantile nonsense you've been droning on about for years. None of it has any place in the Science Forum, which is intended for intelligent conversation. Once you drift into the realms of 'I believe' it belongs in Spirituality, so take it back there.

@kellyjay said
Do you think time plus chance did it?

You present a false dichotomy. The same one you’ve been latching onto for years. Either God did it, or random chance, do not exhaust the alternatives. This has been pointed out every time we have reached this point in previous conversations, and you still haven’t registered it. No point in repeating it yet again.