8 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
Well, the point of view makes a big difference and must be correct to ensure the logic produces the true conclusion. That is, if the postulate or axiom is not correct, then no matter how good is your logic, you will not come to the right conclusion. So you will be wrong.
The Instructor
Well, the point of view makes a big difference
NO, NOT to flawless LOGIC.
and must be correct to ensure the logic produces the true conclusion.
NO, what must be correct is the 'promise' and NOT merely your personal subjective “point of view” -I say that and "subjective" because I can tell here that you don't mean exactly the same thing by the two terms but are deliberately attaching different meaning to the terms.
That is, if the postulate or axiom is not correct
Now you are talking here about the premise and NOT your personal subjective “point of view”. Again, I say that because I can tell here that you don't mean exactly the same thing by the two terms.
I can clearly tell what you are trying to do here; I can tell here that, in order to convince yourself that flawless logic is no better than religious faith, you choose to confuse personal subjective “point of view”, which may be neither be true or false (depending on what you mean by it) because it may be nothing more than a subjective perception (such as visually looking at the same thing but at an esthetically different but no more or less revealing angle), unlike with a true promise, which MUST be either true or false. The idea you have behind this is presumably by erroneously classifying flawless logic as dependent on peoples “point of view” and thus it just all being just a matter of mere 'opinion', you can convince yourself of the delusion that there is no such thing as 'flawless' logic so that you can dismiss the flawless logic that goes against you blind religious faith as being no better than blind religious faith.
But, sorry to shutter your delusion but, real flawless logic does NOT depend on mere subjective “point of view” or mere “opinion”. It is perfectly objective: if the premise (NOT mere “point of view&rdquo😉 of an argument it correct and IF the argument uses only flawless logic then it is an objective fact that its conclusion MUST logically be correct AND correct regardless of your “point of view” or mere “opinion”. You may rationally argue against the premise being true and thus rationally question the conclusion, BUT, that does NOT equate with rationally arguing against the flawless logic being perfectly valid and also 'true' in the sense of "if X then Y" is true.
Sorry! flawless logic; 1. religious faith; 0.
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Originally posted by humyYou, humy, have no flawless logic. Your logic is flawed becuase you do not know the truth. Your flawless logic is based on the assumption that your premise is correct, but your premise is based on your subjective point of view that is only assumed to be correct. You do not even want to look at things from my point of view. What happened to the objective point of view? You are only arguing from your subjective point of view and trying desperately to win that argument. Sorry, you did not win any points.Well, the point of view makes a big difference
NO, NOT to flawless LOGIC.and must be correct to ensure the logic produces the true conclusion.
NO, what must be correct is the 'promise' and NOT merely your personal subjective “point of view” -I say that and "subjective" because I can tell here that you don't mean e the sense of "if X then Y" is true.
Sorry! flawless logic; 1. religious faith; 0.
The Instructor
9 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
You, humy, have no flawless logic. Your logic is flawed becuase you do not know the truth. Your flawless logic is based on the assumption that your premise is correct, but your premise is based on your subjective point of view that is only assumed to be correct. You do not even want to look at things from my point of view. What happened to the objective ...[text shortened]... d trying desperately to win that argument. Sorry, you did not win any points.
The Instructor
but your premise is based on your subjective point of view
No, it is based on the evidence.
You do not even want to look at things from my point of view.
Your illogical “point of view” is irrelevant to what the evidence tells us is true.
Your logic is flawed becuase you do not know the truth. Your flawless logic is based on the assumption that your premise is correct,
Yet again, you show your complete ignorance of what logic is -whether the premise of an argument is true or false has nothing to do with whether the logic of the argument is flawed. You can have an argument with only completely flawless logic and its premise (and, if you like, its conclusion as well) being completely false. The two are NOT mutually exclusive.
Example:
(1) "All men are black. I am a man. Therefore I am black."
The premise is false AND the logic of that is totally flawless logic.
and if I say:
(2) "If all men are black and if I am a man then I am black."
then you cannot even argue against that argument by arguing against the premise because it doesn't even say that the premise is true because the operative word here is "if". So this should be flawless logic even by your warped standards.
You said in an earlier post there is no such thing as flawless logic. OK then, so explain to us HOW (2) is NOT flawless logic?
tell us where the 'flaw' is in (2) and how it is flawed ....
Originally posted by humyNo. That is all stupid and crazy logic by my point of view.but your premise is based on your subjective point of view
No, it is based on the evidence.You do not even want to look at things from my point of view.
Your illogical “point of view” is irrelevant to what the evidence tells us is true.
[quote] Your logic is flawed becuase you do not know the truth. Your flaw ...[text shortened]... is NOT flawless logic?
tell us where the 'flaw' is in (2) and how it is flawed ....
The Instructor
Originally posted by RJHindsHOW is "If all men are black and if I am a man then I am black" "stupid and crazy logic" by your "point of view"?
No. That is [b]all stupid and crazy logic by my point of view.
The Instructor[/b]
Explain to us exactly which part of that is "stupid" or "crazy" and in exactly what way?
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Originally posted by Eladaryes, thanks for that. But that is not what RJHinds is saying. What he has been saying is that the logic of an argument itself is necessarily faulty if the premise is false! This is clearly wrong.
If the premise is correct, then logic works. If the premise is faulty, then using logic leads to incorrect consclusions.
He has also been saying there isn't such thing as flawless logic. This is also clearly wrong. I have just given him examples of flawless logic and he has done nothing to show the flaw in the logic.
Both of these false things he is saying shows his complete ignorance of what logic actually is, even on the simplest fundamental basic level that the average 8 year old can understand. I for one can clearly remember having no difficultly understanding these very simple basics of logic when I was as young as 8 and, although my memories before then start to get pretty shaky, I am pretty sure I probably could understand those basics when I was a lot younger than that!
Originally posted by humyNo I am not. I am saying that your worldview can lead you to an incorrect premise and if you start with an incorrect premise your so-called flawless logic is no good because the conclusion will be wrong. And you, Mr. humy, have the wrong worldview.
yes, thanks for that. But that is not what RJHinds is saying. What he has been saying is that the logic of an argument itself is necessarily faulty if the premise is false! This is clearly wrong.
He has also been saying there isn't such thing as flawless logic. This is also clearly wrong. I have just given him examples of flawless logic and he ha ...[text shortened]... , I am pretty sure I probably could understand those basics when I was a lot younger than that!
The Instructor
3 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
No I am not. I am saying that your worldview can lead you to an incorrect premise and if you start with an incorrect premise your so-called flawless logic is no good because the conclusion will be wrong. And you, Mr. humy, have the wrong worldview.
The Instructor
No I am not.
“THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FLAWLESS LOGIC” -your quote.
-and that is not to mention the fact you clearly indicated your complete and utter confusion between a premise being false and logic being erroneous when the two are clearly completely separate things.
You also demonstrated your complete ignorance of Occam's razor by saying it is to do with how 'simple' a theory is (this part of your misunderstanding is at least excusable because this part is a very common misconception) and that your "point of view" has something to do with how 'simple' a theory is in the context of Occam's razor (this part of your misunderstanding is NOT excusable -don't know where you got that bit of nonsense from).
Originally posted by humyWell now that you think you understand it all, can we just say we agree to disagree and be done with it?No I am not.
“THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FLAWLESS LOGIC” -your quote.
-and that is not to mention the fact you clearly indicated your complete and utter confusion between a premise being false and logic being erroneous when the two are clearly completely separate things.
You also demonstrated your complete ignorance of Occam's razor ...[text shortened]... misunderstanding is NOT excusable -don't know where you got that bit of nonsense from).
The Instructor
Originally posted by RJHindsNot by a long shot. You and your ilk are 100% wrong about EVERYTHING. You HATE the idea of humans actually using their intelligence to see clearly the bible fairy tales are so full of shyte they could be written on wrapping paper.
Well now that you think you understand it all, can we just say we agree to disagree and be done with it?
The Instructor
They are not worth the paper they are written on except to continue the greatest ponzi scheme the world has ever known.
Originally posted by sonhouseYou crack me up with your HATE speech. 😀
Not by a long shot. You and your ilk are 100% wrong about EVERYTHING. You HATE the idea of humans actually using their intelligence to see clearly the bible fairy tales are so full of shyte they could be written on wrapping paper.
They are not worth the paper they are written on except to continue the greatest ponzi scheme the world has ever known.
The Instructor