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    21 Jan '15 08:152 edits
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    And even that he nicked from Wallace.
    Darwin is the Edison of biology.
    Actually, Darwin was the first to work out both evolution and the mechanism for evolution and he did that before Alfred Russel Wallace.

    Darwin was initially to afraid to publish his discovery because he feared hostile reaction from Christians. But, much later on, he then heard of the work Wallace was doing and, fearing that Wallace would steal all the credit for being the first to discover evolution, that forced is hand. It should be noted that he made Wallace the co-author of his book on evolution thus he honestly cited all of Wallace’s contributions.

    Note that Wallace and Darwin disagreed a lot about the way evolution works and what exactly evolution is responsible for. In particular, Darwin though evolution was responsible for human intelligence while Wallace didn't.

    See http://darwin200.christs.cam.ac.uk/pages/index.php?page_id=d8
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    25 Jan '15 08:251 edit
    Originally posted by humy
    Actually, Darwin was the first to work out both evolution and the mechanism for evolution and he did that before Alfred Russel Wallace.

    Darwin was initially to afraid to publish his discovery because he feared hostile reaction from Christians. But, much later on, he then heard of the work Wallace was doing and, fearing that Wallace would steal all the credi ...[text shortened]... gence while Wallace didn't.

    See http://darwin200.christs.cam.ac.uk/pages/index.php?page_id=d8
    Yeah, that's not entirely accurate, I'm afraid.

    The thought that life could have evolved from earlier forms go as far back as Ionaian philosopher Anaximander (who suggested that land-living animals must have originated in the sea). Erasmus Darwin (Charles' grandfather) also was a proponent of the idea that life began in the sea and later evolved. Then we have Jean Baptiste de Lamarck, who proposed a more complete theory of evolution (incorrect but interesting to read - he thought for instance that if an organism began to use an organ previously unused, it would begin to refine itself to better fit its usage - it's a fun read). In fact, there were many thinkers before Charles Darwin who believed that life evolves.

    What changed everything though, was the idea of natural selection. You'll find that Wallace's theory was virtually identical to Darwin's. This is the reason they presented this idea together before the Linnean society. But even Wallace gave Darwin the credit (Wallace was the one who called the theory Darwinism), and the reason he would do that, is probably because he found out that Darwin had the idea as early as the 1830's, and had an almost completed book on the theory, demonstrating how vigurously he'd worked on it. It's often said that Darwin found out about Wallace's theory when a member of the Linnean society decided to show it to Darwin, but the truth is that Wallace actually sent his paper to Darwin for opinions. They were friends. They weren't afraid of having their works stolen from each other. They really did develop this idea of natural selection independently of each other.

    Another interesting note is that Wallace always believed evolution was a fact, right from the start, whereas Darwin initially was a big fan of Paley (the guy who came up with the watchmaker argument). He only lost his belief in a purposeful creation after the idea of natural selection began to gain weight in the evidence he collected (partially with the help of Wallace).

    Oh, and I just learned that Wallace and Darwin had this idea of natural selection at approximately the same time, reading the "Essay on the Principle of Population" by political economist Thomas Maltus. Fascinating. Everytime I read about this, I pick up something new; something I've missed before.

    🙂
  3. Joined
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    25 Jan '15 08:352 edits
    Originally posted by C Hess
    Yeah, that's not entirely accurate, I'm afraid.

    The thought that life could have evolved from earlier forms go as far back as Ionaian philosopher Anaximander (who suggested that land-living animals must have originated in the sea). Erasmus Darwin (Charles' grandfather) also was a proponent of the idea that life began in the sea and later evolved. Then we h ...[text shortened]... ating. Everytime I read about this, I pick up something new; something I've missed before.

    🙂
    Yeah, that's not entirely accurate, I'm afraid.

    Actually, it is. I said “Darwin was the first to work out both evolution and the mechanism for evolution”, which he was.
    The operative word here is “both”.
    What changed everything though, was the idea of natural selection.

    that would be the “mechanism for evolution” I was referring to in my “Darwin was the first to work out both evolution and the mechanism for evolution” quote.
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    25 Jan '15 08:39
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    And even that he nicked from Wallace.
    Darwin is the Edison of biology.
    He didn't steal anything from Wallace. Wallace is the one who referred to Darwin as "the Newton of natural history".
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    25 Jan '15 09:161 edit
    Originally posted by humy
    Yeah, that's not entirely accurate, I'm afraid.

    Actually, it is. I said “Darwin was the first to work out [b]both
    evolution and the mechanism for evolution”, which he was. The operative word here is “both”.
    What changed everything though, was the idea of natural selection.

    that would be the “mechanism fo ...[text shortened]... “Darwin was the first to work out both evolution and the mechanism for evolution” quote.[/b]
    But he wasn't the first to work out evolution, and natural selection was thought of by them both at around the same time, independently of each other. He wasn't afraid of Wallace stealing his work, and as far as I know he didn't wait with publishing because he was afraid of how christians would react, but because it wasn't completed. You tell a very different story from what I've learned.
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    25 Jan '15 09:47
    Originally posted by C Hess
    He didn't steal anything from Wallace. Wallace is the one who referred to Darwin as "the Newton of natural history".
    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14558/14558-h/14558-h.htm
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    25 Jan '15 10:436 edits
    Originally posted by C Hess
    But he wasn't the first to work out evolution, and natural selection was thought of by them both at around the same time, independently of each other. He wasn't afraid of Wallace stealing his work, and as far as I know he didn't wait with publishing because he was afraid of how christians would react, but because it wasn't completed. You tell a very different story from what I've learned.
    But he wasn't the first to work out evolution, and natural selection was thought of by them both at around the same time, independently of each other.

    I never said/implied this was false. He was nevertheless the first in recorded history to simultaneously work out both evolution and natural selection so he could explain the mechanism of evolution rather than just say species evolve without explaining how so.
    as far as I know he didn't wait with publishing because he was afraid of how Christians would react, but because it wasn't completed.

    Yes, I just looked it up and you were right about that part:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6500887.stm

    I was always was lead to believe from TV documentaries that he delayed publication for fear of christen ridicule and hostile reaction but it appears now that this is just one big common myth because this is totally unsupported by the evidence.
    Thanks for that! You just taught me something new 🙂
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