12 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFThe answers you so yearn for are presented in the film 'Antz'. Now there's a knock-me-down Heideggerian barn-dance for you.
Do ants ever fear for their lives? Are any ants misfits? How does an ant tell its colleagues that my coffee cup is next to my computer and the time is ripe? To what extent does wisdom hold the sway as ants age?
12 Feb 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageMy five year old calls it "the one where the ants can talk", which suggests that there's no point me asking him "Do ants ever fear for their lives? Are any ants misfits?" and so on, seeing as the answer will be "but of course they do, daddy...".
The answers you so yearn for are presented in the film 'Antz'. Now there's a knock-me-down Heideggerian barn-dance for you.
Of course, bringing up children in "Indo what? where? No shi-t?", rather than in "The West", might have me pegged in certain circles as a bad daddy. By choice I live in a dreadful Asian anthill. But I try my best, get older, and wiser, and try to improve myself.
That's why I want to know: "To what extent does wisdom hold the sway as ants age?"
12 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFFear is one of those words whose definition has gray edges. Ants are in those gray edges. I am sure an ant reacts negatively to the threat of death - most ants run or try to fight back when threatened. Whether such a reaction or the mental processes that cause them can be called 'fear' is another matter.
Do ants ever fear for their lives?
Are any ants misfits?
Yes.
How does an ant tell its colleagues that my coffee cup is next to my computer and the time is ripe?
Ants mostly communicate by smell.
To what extent does wisdom hold the sway as ants age?
I don't think ants have much learning capacity, so no.
15 Feb 09
The apparent intelligence of ants and other animals with sterile "workers" stems from the fact that they are sterile. Because they are sterile, the best they can do is not look after themselves but care for their kin and the kin-making machine (the queen). Therefore sophisticated cooperative behaviour can evolve quickly and efficiently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplodiploid_sex-determination_system
18 Feb 09
an episode of Hollywood Squares from the 70s (I think) posited that there only 6 to 8 things on earth that are dumber than an ant, so I vote with an earlier poster--they're likely too stupid to formulate emotion at all.
*The answer George Gobel gave on the show was "That's true, and I voted for five of 'em."
19 Feb 09
Originally posted by ChronicLeakyI think you are onto something here.
I doubt it, if consciousness is a necessary condition for fear, but there are thoe who would claim that the ant colony as a whole does 😉.
The ants have a collective consciousness, that is how they all know where the candy bar is and they all travel right to it. They don't have to talk.
Only humans, with our individual consciousness, have to communicate with words and grunts.
19 Feb 09
Originally posted by mlpriorNo, ants have no consciousness, "collective" or not. Ants no more have a collective consciousness than the atoms in my arm who "cooperate" to bring a mug of coffee to my mouth.
I think you are onto something here.
The ants have a collective consciousness, that is how they all know where the candy bar is and they all travel right to it. They don't have to talk.
Only humans, with our individual consciousness, have to communicate with words and grunts.
19 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFWell I called my Aunt up the other day and asked her. She only denied being a misfit.
Do ants ever fear for their lives? Are any ants misfits? How does an ant tell its colleagues that my coffee cup is next to my computer and the time is ripe? To what extent does wisdom hold the sway as ants age?
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by KazetNagorraAre you so sure of this?
No, ants have no consciousness, "collective" or not. Ants no more have a collective consciousness than the atoms in my arm who "cooperate" to bring a mug of coffee to my mouth.
Maybe you are not conscious enough to see it.
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by mlpriorWell, not one hundred percent sure, it just seems unlikely to me that incests have a consciousness, considering mammals need quite a large brain for it in comparison. Also, the behaviour of insects and similar creatures is much like how aritificial intelligence functions (though the whole concept of consciousness is pretty vague and one could argue computers have a consciousness, but that's a whole different story).
Are you so sure of this?
Maybe you are not conscious enough to see it.
21 Feb 09
Originally posted by KazetNagorraAnts would have a small brain...if they have one at all, I don't actually know.
Well, not one hundred percent sure, it just seems unlikely to me that incests have a consciousness, considering mammals need quite a large brain for it in comparison. Also, the behaviour of insects and similar creatures is much like how aritificial intelligence functions (though the whole concept of consciousness is pretty vague and one could argue computers have a consciousness, but that's a whole different story).
But they still know that they have to eat, reproduce, take care of their young, and all the other things that they seem to know (where my pop can is sitting).
I guess what I'm saying, maybe their consciousness (or maybe there is a better word for it) is not physically inside their head like we would consider ours to be. If they have an external "collective consciousness" that would explain why they act as one unit, all follow in the same line, all swarm when there is an invader.
I don't know...I'm just saying it is possible.
21 Feb 09
Originally posted by mlpriorWell, the apparent collective consciousness stems from the fact that evolution has programmed the individual actions of ants to result in complex behaviour on a large scale. This is due to the reproductive system for ants and similar creatures.
Ants would have a small brain...if they have one at all, I don't actually know.
But they still know that they have to eat, reproduce, take care of their young, and all the other things that they seem to know (where my pop can is sitting).
I guess what I'm saying, maybe their consciousness (or maybe there is a better word for it) is not physically insid ...[text shortened]... ine, all swarm when there is an invader.
I don't know...I'm just saying it is possible.