1. Joined
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    24 Jun '19 06:22
    @philokalia said
    That's really pithy -- consider my feelings hurt, bra.

    Ya gotta put this one in your highlight reel.
    It is possibly his psychological projection. He defended segregation as school choice on the debates forum for some weird reason. As if black students had more choice when Biden voted for segregation.
  2. Subscribersonhouse
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    24 Jun '19 13:51
    @metal-brain said
    It is possibly his psychological projection. He defended segregation as school choice on the debates forum for some weird reason. As if black students had more choice when Biden voted for segregation.
    Biden does have a bit to overcome if he wants the black vote. Time will tell if he can bring them around if he is the nominee. I think Trump will love a Trump/Biden contest. Sorry, I digress.
  3. Germany
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    24 Jun '19 16:42
    @philokalia said
    That's really pithy -- consider my feelings hurt, bra.

    Ya gotta put this one in your highlight reel.
    It's an observation, not an insult. That there is no biological basis for race is scientific fact, not a conspiracy against racists such as yourself.

    Read more:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)
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    24 Jun '19 19:492 edits
    @philokalia said
    Geneticists study genes -- and they do so broadly. It is a very highly contentious field and it's absolutely full of controversy.

    Much of it involves the study of genes in terms of health, and thus it does not deal with quantifying the polygenetic influences on intellignece.

    Some neuroscientists are doing that, though, like Stephen Pinker, who in his book [i ...[text shortened]... e absurdity of saying that every boy born in 1963 had the possibility to become Michael Jordan. [/i]
    I haven't read Dr. Pinker's work, but maybe a quote would better illustrate your point. Certainly he would not argue that there was a genetic linkage between predicted intelligence and race? By what mechanism?

    I didn't say it wasn't contentious. It is a robust and active area of scientific research [see ref]. You proclaimed earlier that "science... ignores the influence of genes on a person" as rationale for the lack of evidence for whatever it is you're trying to argue. This is obviously false. There are hundreds of experts in the field. The contention exists not because of a "weird assumption" among scientists but because intelligence is complicated, and intrinsically probabilistic (i.e. not highly predictive).

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5985927/
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    26 Jun '19 04:15
    @wildgrass said
    I haven't read Dr. Pinker's work, but maybe a quote would better illustrate your point. Certainly he would not argue that there was a genetic linkage between predicted intelligence and race? By what mechanism?

    I didn't say it wasn't contentious. It is a robust and active area of scientific research [see ref]. You proclaimed earlier that "science... ignores the influence ...[text shortened]... probabilistic (i.e. not highly predictive).

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5985927/
    It'd be polygenetic.
    For pinker specifically

    Once the measurements are made, the variance of the sample may be calculated: the average squared deviation of each person's score from the group mean. The variance is a number that captures the degree to which the members of a group differ from one another. (&hellip😉 It is mathematically meaningful to say that a certain percentage of the variance in a group overlaps with one factor (perhaps, though not necessarily, its cause), another percentage with a second factor, and so on, the percentages adding up to 100. The degree of overlap may be measured as a correlation coefficient, a number between -1 and +1 that captures the degree to which people who are high on one measurement are also high on another measurement. (8) (&hellip😉
    Heritability is the proportion of variance in a trait that correlates with genetic differences. It can be measured in several ways. (21) The simplest is to take the correlation between identical twins who were separated at birth and reared apart. (&hellip😉 Alternatively, one can compare identical twins reared together, who share all their genes and most of their environment, with fraternal twins reared together, who share half their genes and most of their environment. (&hellip😉 The bigger the difference between the two correlations, the higher the heritability estimate. Yet another technique is to compare biological siblings, who share half their genes and most of their environment, with adoptive siblings, who share none of their genes (among those that vary) and most of their environment.

    Results:

    The results come out roughly the same no matter what is measured or how it is measured. Identical twins reared apart are highly similar; identical twins reared together are more similar than fraternal twins reared together; biological siblings are far more similar than adoptive siblings. (1,2,3,10,19,21) All this translates into substantial heritability values, generally between .25 and .75. A conventional summary is that about half the variation in intelligence, personality, and life outcomes is heritable – a correlate or an indirect product of the genes. It's hard to be much more precise than that, because heritability values vary within this range for a number of reasons. (21)

    (Please refer to the book or some other source to learn about those reasons.)

    (&hellip😉

    The heritability of intelligence, for example, increases over the lifespan, and can be as high as .8 late in life. (14,22) Forget "As the twig is bent"; think "Omigod, I'm turning into my parents!"
    https://sebscogblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/steven-pinkers-account-of-evidence.html?m=1

    .... But in general, you can even just visit the Wikipedia for the heritability of intelligence.
  6. Joined
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    26 Jun '19 14:25
    @philokalia said
    It'd be polygenetic.
    For pinker specifically

    Once the measurements are made, the variance of the sample may be calculated: the average squared deviation of each person's score from the group mean. The variance is a number that captures the degree to which the members of a group differ from one another. (&hellip😉 It is mathematically meaningful to say that a certain percenta ...[text shortened]...

    .... But in general, you can even just visit the Wikipedia for the heritability of intelligence.
    Some of your language is fuzzy, but the gist is that you cannot predict intelligence based on race.
  7. S. Korea
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    26 Jun '19 21:58
    Pinker believes IQ tests are valid.

    IQ tests show different races have different IQs. Radically so.

    The results of IQ are mostly inherited biological traits...

    Therefore, what would Pinker believe?

    And, of course, we know why he doesn't say it.
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  9. S. Korea
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    26 Jun '19 23:45
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    You have just used some leftist website to attack Pinker for being right wing, but the reality is that he is a Jewish intellectual who believes that scientific progress is largely going to be the salvation of mankind & has believed in a consistent moral evolution. He is also an atheist, and has little love for traditional society....

    I do not see how any of that a conservative doth make.

    Moreover, you did not attack any of the ideas that Pinker has on the science -- on the topic of this thread.

    Do you have any feedback on that, Duchess?
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  11. S. Korea
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    27 Jun '19 01:18
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Um, Duchess, in the last post, I asked you to discuss the statements that Stephen Pinker made. He is a neuroscientist, that is his discipline, after all...

    I do not dispute the fact that he has gotten it a bit wrong in some of the more general writing he has done. Of course he is not an expert on the Enlightenment or on many other things. He's just taking a stab at the history of it.

    But here he is an expert.

    You also cannot dispute the fact that he isn't some far right nutter at all.

    Would you like to get on the topic and talk about what the neuroscientist has said about intelligence, or do you want to keep posting criticisms of what the neuroscientist said about the Enlightnemnet?
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  13. S. Korea
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    27 Jun '19 06:25
    In contrast, Steven Pinker apparently argues that there are major innate differences
    in intelligence between men and women (with men typically being superior).


    It is true that men have a greater diversity of IQs than women -- the evidence is plentiful and all available on the internet. Women tend to hug the centers of the IQ chart, while men are over represented in both extremes.

    ... Thanks for also bringing up that Pinker argued that there are innate gender differences. Wildgrass will now have more information at his fingertips indicating the essentialist & biodeterministic perspectives of Prof. Pinker.

    Do you have any arguments against his claims, Duchess? Or do you accept them as valid claims?

    Right now, you seem very, very obtuse because you are ignoring the actual content of the debate and just pretending that calling a thing sexist or racist constitutes enough of an argument to lay the issue to rest.
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  15. S. Korea
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    27 Jun '19 08:21
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Alright.

    Would you care to dispute his ideas? I quoted them earlier.

    You have done a lot of writing, but little of it has been on topic, and you have quoted him on other topics in hopes that they transfer over to this one.
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