@metal-brain saidWhich part false?
"No, sound has a Doppler effect because its always travels through a medium that limits its speed "
That is clearly false.
Do you deny sound always travels through a medium?
Or do you deny the speed of sound is limited by the medium it is travelling through? So the speed of sound isn't slower through air than water?
Or what, exactly?
You just described a constantWhere? Now what are you talking about? Are you referring here to c? If so, what has that got to do with sound?
and sound is not constantWho said/implied sound is a "constant"? Not me. What are you talking about? Talk in plain English please.
@humy saidStop pretending you know what you are talking about. You need to read up on how sound changes frequency. Do that and get back to me.
Which part false?
Do you deny sound always travels through a medium?
Or do you deny the speed of sound is limited by the medium it is travelling through? So the speed of sound isn't slower through air than water?
Or what, exactly?You just described a constantWhere? Now what are you talking about? Are you referring here to c? If so, what has that got to d ...[text shortened]... aid/implied sound is a "constant"? Not me. What are you talking about? Talk in plain English please.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Sound/dopp.html
@metal-brain saidNo I don't. I already well covered that at university. Unlike you, I know what I am talking about. Sound isn't light.
Stop pretending you know what you are talking about. You need to read up on how sound changes frequency.
@humy saidThe frequency of sound changes because sound vibrating the air is not a constant, not despite that fact. Your lack of a proper education is amazing. Do you always pretend to understand things you don't?
No I don't. I already well covered that at university. Unlike you, I know what I am talking about. Sound isn't light.
@metal-brain saidAgain, what are you talking about? That's a pretty vague and confused sounding assertion.
The frequency of sound changes because sound vibrating the air is not a constant,
What aspect of "sound vibrating the air" is "not a constant"? The speed of sound? If so, nobody here including I said/implied the contrary.
If not, exactly what are you referring to here if not the speed? Be specific.
@sonhouse saidHell no!
@Metal-Brain
Are you trying to say there is no such thing as doppler shift in air?
Where did you get that absurd notion? Can't you read???
@humy saidNot vague at all. What I wrote makes perfect and unambiguous sense. Sound waves are compressed to change the frequency of an approaching train. If light does not move faster from an approaching train there can be no compression like sound if light is constant.
Again, what are you talking about? That's a pretty vague and confused sounding assertion.
What aspect of "sound vibrating the air" is "not a constant"? The speed of sound? If so, nobody here including I said/implied the contrary.
If not, exactly what are you referring to here if not the speed? Be specific.
Sound waves are not a constant speed when movement is applied. That is what causes the Doppler effect. If light is constant when speed is applied how are the waves being compressed?
If you don't understand what I just said don't bother replying. Learn what causes the Doppler effect. You don't understand it well enough.
"How to Use the Feynman Technique
Since the root of this technique involves explaining the concept, you could execute it in a number of ways – including literally grabbing a friend and explaining to them what you’re learning. However, you don’t always have willing friends at hand, so here’s the simpler method that just involves a sheet of paper.
Step 1: Grab a sheet of paper and write the name of the concept at the top. You can use pretty much any concept or idea – even though the technique is named after Feynman, it’s not limited solely to math and science.
Step 2: Explain the concept in your own words as if you were teaching it to someone else. Focus on using plain, simple language. Don’t limit your explanation to a simple definition or a broad overview; challenge yourself to work through an example or two as well to ensure you can put the concept into action.
Step 3: Review your explanation and identify the areas where you didn’t know something or where you feel your explanation is shaky. Once you’ve pinpointed them, go back to the source material, your notes, or any examples you can find in order to shore up your understanding.
Step 4: If there are any areas in your explanation where you’ve used lots of technical terms or complex language, challenge yourself to re-write these sections in simpler terms. Make sure your explanation could be understood by someone without the knowledge base you believe you already have."
https://collegeinfogeek.com/feynman-technique/
@metal-brain saidI'm wondering why you think "light being a constant" but "sound not being a constant" means that there ought to be a doppler effect in waves in a fluid but not for electromagnetic waves.
Not vague at all. What I wrote makes perfect and unambiguous sense. Sound waves are compressed to change the frequency of an approaching train. If light does not move faster from an approaching train there can be no compression like sound if light is constant.
Sound waves are not a constant speed when movement is applied. That is what causes the Doppler effect. If ligh ...[text shortened]... the knowledge base you believe you already have."
https://collegeinfogeek.com/feynman-technique/
Briefly, suppose we are immersed in a fluid such as air which defines the preferred reference frame and are stationary with respect to it. There are two sources of sound, one is stationary with respect to the fluid and one moving. Both we and the two sources of sound have atomic clocks which measure the elapsed time. They remain synchronized throughout the experiment. The one that is stationary emits waves at 1000Hz. The one moving towards us emits sound a the source of sound is approaching us, but as it emits the sound the distance between peaks has been reduced and so its frequency is higher.
Now let's do the same thing but in a vacuum and using light instead of sound. The stationary source emits light at a frequency f and we receive it at the same frequency, the on-board atomic clocks are synchronized throughout. The moving source, however, has a clock that appears to be running slow in our frame of reference. Because the source has moved towards us while emitting the wave, the time between successive peaks arriving is reduced. So we get the same doppler shift whether there is a medium or not. However, because the clock on the moving source is running slowly relative to ours there is a time dilation effect as well.
@deepthought saidhttps://sciencevstruth.com/ether-wind-and-ether-drag/
I'm wondering why you think "light being a constant" but "sound not being a constant" means that there ought to be a doppler effect in waves in a fluid but not for electromagnetic waves.
Briefly, suppose we are immersed in a fluid such as air which defines the preferred reference frame and are stationary with respect to it. There are two sources of sound, one i ...[text shortened]... ock on the moving source is running slowly relative to ours there is a time dilation effect as well.
@Metal-Brain
Why do you think a constant speed effects doppler shift? If the speed of sound is 900 feet/second and a source comes at you beeping a horn and it is doing 90 ft/second, the frequency change will be 10%.
If the speed of sound where you are was 1000ft/second and the same car goes by at 90 ft/sec, the change in pitch will be about 9%. THERE IS STILL A CHANGE IN PITCH IN EACH SITUATION.
Speed of light is constant. PERIOD. END OF STORY, NOBODY DENIES THAT IN ANY GREAT AMOUNT.
If you are in a spacecraft sending data back to Earth where we consider Earth to be stationary and the craft is doing 0.5 c away from Earth, a 1 Ghz signal being generated by the transmitter will be seen at 500 Mhz, exactly half the frequency of the sender.
If the same craft were approaching Earth, that 1 Ghz signal will now be seen on Earth at TWO gigahertz. That is just how it works, that is why they call it 'Red Shift' because the speed at which stuff recedes varies by distance, the further away stuff is, if it radiates, the frequency of that radiation goes down, longer wavelength. That is how it works and NOBODY disputes that. That is why for instance stars they call 'standard candles' which for the most part all put out the same color of radiation, they can be used as a ruler of distance because if the color is more red shifted, it is because it is at a longer distance from Earth.
@sonhouse saidGood grief! Is the speed of sound constant or not? Yes or no?
@Metal-Brain
Why do you think a constant speed effects doppler shift? If the speed of sound is 900 feet/second and a source comes at you beeping a horn and it is doing 90 ft/second, the frequency change will be 10%.
If the speed of sound where you are was 1000ft/second and the same car goes by at 90 ft/sec, the change in pitch will be about 9%. THERE IS STILL A CHANGE IN ...[text shortened]... tance because if the color is more red shifted, it is because it is at a longer distance from Earth.
@Metal-Brain
Why are you stuck on the speed of sound? Of course it is not constant, if the atmosphere was all helium at 14.7 psi the speed of sound would be much higher which is why you sound squeeky when you sniff a lung full of helium and talk while exhaling.
Speed of sound varies from altitude, compositon and temperature.
That has JACK to do with doppler shift, there will be a certain doppler shift in ANY condition where sound can propagate. It still means whatever the speed of sound is at a particular place, if a car goes by at 1/10th the speed of sound in that medium, there will be a resultant 10% change in frequency, +10% for approaching and -10% for receding. FOR ANY KIND OF AIR.
@sonhouse saidSame altitude and pressure. Is the speed of sound constant or not? Yes or no?
@Metal-Brain
Why are you stuck on the speed of sound? Of course it is not constant, if the atmosphere was all helium at 14.7 psi the speed of sound would be much higher which is why you sound squeeky when you sniff a lung full of helium and talk while exhaling.
Speed of sound varies from altitude, compositon and temperature.
That has JACK to do with doppler shift, there ...[text shortened]... resultant 10% change in frequency, +10% for approaching and -10% for receding. FOR ANY KIND OF AIR.
@Metal-Brain
same altitude and pressure AND the same composition, it would be a constant speed. What part of change it to helium and the speed changes even at the same pressure and altitude do you not understand?