1. Unknown Territories
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    08 Jul '17 15:25
    Q. If we were to estimate where the earth will be on a specific date in the future or where it was on a specific date in the past, what system would we use and what do those coordinates look like?
  2. Germany
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    08 Jul '17 15:29
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_orbit
  3. Cape Town
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    08 Jul '17 16:041 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Q. If we were to estimate where the earth will be on a specific date in the future or where it was on a specific date in the past, what system would we use and what do those coordinates look like?
    It depends on what you are measuring its position in relation to. Everything is relative, and different coordinate systems use different referents.

    I guess its a question of why you want to measure it. If you are concerned about other planets, or asteroids, then the solar system with the sun at the centre is the best coordinate system.
    If you are more concerned about its relation to particular nearby stars then a galactic system is in order.
    If you care more about it relation to nearby galaxies, then I suggest doing a basic astronomy course.

    If you still think the earth is flat, then take it to spirituality.
  4. Unknown Territories
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    08 Jul '17 19:46
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_orbit
    That only helps in a motionless system, i.e., the system itself is not moving.
    The specific question is: where in the universe will the earth be, or has it been?
    Not in relation to the sun, but in relation to the broader room, the universe.
  5. Unknown Territories
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    08 Jul '17 20:03
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It depends on what you are measuring its position in relation to. Everything is relative, and different coordinate systems use different referents.

    I guess its a question of why you want to measure it. If you are concerned about other planets, or asteroids, then the solar system with the sun at the centre is the best coordinate system.
    If you are more ...[text shortened]... a basic astronomy course.

    If you still think the earth is flat, then take it to spirituality.
    It depends on what you are measuring its position in relation to. Everything is relative, and different coordinate systems use different referents.
    As stated in the OP.

    I guess its a question of why you want to measure it. If you are concerned about other planets, or asteroids, then the solar system with the sun at the centre is the best coordinate system.
    And that sun is moving all the time, so that won't work, will it.

    If you are more concerned about its relation to particular nearby stars then a galactic system is in order.
    So use whatever system of coordinates you think would answer the OP.

    If you care more about it relation to nearby galaxies, then I suggest doing a basic astronomy course.
    How long should we wait for you?

    If you still think the earth is flat, then take it to spirituality.
    You still consider yourself moderator of the forum?
    Tsk-tsk.
  6. Joined
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    08 Jul '17 20:466 edits
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    [b]It depends on what you are measuring its position in relation to. Everything is relative, and different coordinate systems use different referents.
    As stated in the OP.

    I guess its a question of why you want to measure it. If you are concerned about other planets, or asteroids, then the solar system with the sun at the centre is the best coor ...[text shortened]... then take it to spirituality.
    You still consider yourself moderator of the forum?
    Tsk-tsk.[/b]

    If you are concerned about other planets, or asteroids, then the solar system with the sun at the centre is the best coordinate system.
    And that sun is moving all the time, so that won't work, will it.

    EVERYTHING, even arbitrary imaginary points in space in addition to physically existing objects, are always moving relative to something so, if you don't use the Sun as the origin for the coordinate system, what alternative do you suggest?

    If you are more concerned about its relation to particular nearby stars then a galactic system is in order.
    So use whatever system of coordinates you think would answer the OP.

    PROVIDING you can predict its relative motions, ANY reference point at the center of your coordinate system would 'work' (but not necessarily well), and answer the OP but most would be totally idiotic choices that would only make life hard for you (by making the maths horrendously and unnecessarily complex), such as totally arbitrarily choosing the position of a particular flying passenger aircraft (providing you can predict all its flight paths else that wouldn't work) etc. So it is just a matter of choosing the most sensible and convenient one. I would say the Sun would be the most obvious sensible one for answering your OP.
  7. Unknown Territories
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    08 Jul '17 21:13
    Originally posted by humy

    [b] If you are concerned about other planets, or asteroids, then the solar system with the sun at the centre is the best coordinate system.

    And that sun is moving all the time, so that won't work, will it.

    EVERYTHING, even arbitrary imaginary points in space in addition to physically existing objects, are always moving relative to ...[text shortened]... onvenient one. I would say the Sun would be the most obvious sensible one for answering your OP.[/b]
    Let's make it exceedingly easy for you to wrap your mind around, since you're kind of struggling with the concept--- making it something it isn't.

    Pretend you're the quarterback of a football team.
    You're wanting to come up with a passing play, which involves throwing the ball to the moon.
    In a regular play, the ball is passed between the center's legs into your hands, you drop back and then throw the ball to where the receiver is expected to be.
    In this situation, you have to think a little more out of the box, so to speak.
    Not only are you moving (and thus the playing field upon which you are attempting to throw the ball is also moving), but the moon is moving as well.
    So what does that play look like: the one where you are moving in multiple directions whilst the moon is also moving?
    In other words, how do you, as the quarterback, time your pass to hit the receiver, i.e., the moon, when you have no idea where in the hell that receiver is going to be?
  8. Joined
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    08 Jul '17 22:087 edits
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Let's make it exceedingly easy for you to wrap your mind around, since you're kind of struggling with the concept--- making it something it isn't.

    Pretend you're the quarterback of a football team.
    You're wanting to come up with a passing play, which involves throwing the ball to the moon.
    In a regular play, the ball is passed between the center's leg ...[text shortened]... receiver, i.e., the moon, when you have no idea where in the hell that receiver is going to be?
    since you're kind of struggling with the concept-

    I am not straggling with any concept here, you are. You apparently cannot handle 'relative motion'.

    how do you ... time your pass to hit the ... moon, when you have no idea where in the hell that ... is going to be?

    First cut out the obnoxious unhelpful unnecessary totally irrelevant stupid sports analogies. Then take a physics course to learn the geometry of the orbit of the Moon and the spin of the Earth etc and then do the maths so you do come to know where the Moon will be.
  9. Unknown Territories
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    08 Jul '17 22:19
    Originally posted by humy
    since you're kind of struggling with the concept-

    I am not straggling with any concept here, you are. You apparently cannot handle 'relative motion'.

    how do you ... time your pass to hit the ... moon, when you have no idea where in the hell that ... is going to be?

    First cut out the unhelpful totally irrelevant stu ...[text shortened]... d the spin of the Earth etc and then do the maths so you do come to know where the Moon will be.
    So what you're saying is: you cannot answer the OP.
    Got it.
  10. Joined
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    08 Jul '17 22:222 edits
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    So what you're saying is: you cannot answer the OP.
    .
    no, I can answer it; but you are either not interested or cannot understand.
  11. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    08 Jul '17 23:05
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    In other words, how do you, as the quarterback, time your pass to hit the receiver, i.e., the moon, when you have no idea where in the hell that receiver is going to be?
    Take a small ball on a fast train with a friend (if you have one)
    now toss the ball to your friend while the train is moving.

    Wow!!!
    He catches it!

    How on earth did you calculate where he would be and know where to throw the ball?
  12. Unknown Territories
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    08 Jul '17 23:12
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Take a small ball on a fast train with a friend (if you have one)
    now toss the ball to your friend while the train is moving.

    Wow!!!
    He catches it!

    How on earth did you calculate where he would be and know where to throw the ball?
    That's the question, yo.
  13. Cape Town
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    09 Jul '17 08:09
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    As stated in the OP.
    It is NOT stated in the OP.

    And that sun is moving all the time, so that won't work, will it.
    Did you read my post, or you really that stupid?

    You still consider yourself moderator of the forum?
    Tsk-tsk.

    No, I still consider some of your topics to be NOT science related and I suggest taking them to the spirituality forum where delusional nonsense is usually discussed.
    The only reason you are here is you embarrassed yourself in the debates forum and ran away in shame.
  14. Cape Town
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    09 Jul '17 08:12
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Not in relation to the sun, but in relation to the broader room, the universe.
    The universe is not an object IN the universe, hence you cannot measure something relative to the universe. It has no walls or fixed features. Everything is relative.
  15. Cape Town
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    09 Jul '17 08:14
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Not only are you moving (and thus the playing field upon which you are attempting to throw the ball is also moving), but the moon is moving as well.
    So what does that play look like: the one where you are moving in multiple directions whilst the moon is also moving?
    In other words, how do you, as the quarterback, time your pass to hit the receiver, i.e., the moon, when you have no idea where in the hell that receiver is going to be?
    Have you ever been in a car?
    Try throwing a ball to a friend in a car and see whether you need to know where the earth was relative to the sun.
    What amazes me about you is you can speak (type a few words), but can't think. Its a paradox.
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