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Science Forum

  1. 04 Nov '17 19:00
    So does evolution give a reason as to why the Giraffe is as it is? Is there a direct fossil record that shows all of the evolutions of the Giraffe?

    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160629-giraffes-did-not-evolve-long-necks-to-reach-tall-trees

    Interesting that long necks did not help Giraffes to survive since during the times of short food supply Giraffes feed on low shrubs.
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    9th Grade...
    04 Nov '17 19:16 / 1 edit
    From your link:

    In other words, there is no obvious sexual dimorphism in neck length. As a result, the authors concluded that the "competing browsers" hypothesis "is the more likely explanation for tallness in giraffes".


    Yes there are fossils.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151007033229.htm
  3. 04 Nov '17 19:23
    So what you are saying is that there is no real explanation for the long necks, just that there are clues about how it happened. These clues are not facts, just puzzle pieces that some people believe fit.

    Interesting, evolution without an actual reason based on clues and no facts.
  4. 05 Nov '17 07:51 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by @eladar
    So what you are saying is that there is no real explanation for the long necks,
    what are you talking about? Evolution is the real explanation.
    And evolution theory these days is based entirely on the facts given by the overwhelming evidence.
    The laryngeal nerve of the giraffe is proof of mindless natural selection as it would be absurd that an intelligence designing that could make such a completely stupid 'design' imperfection.
  5. Subscriber venda
    Dave
    05 Nov '17 17:48
    The thing that first convinced me regarding evolution was Darwin's study of the Galapagos tortoises that evolved differently depending on the island they were on i.e on the islands where the vegetation was higher the animals developed longer necks.
  6. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    06 Nov '17 05:18
    Originally posted by @eladar
    So does evolution give a reason as to why the Giraffe is as it is? .
    Unfortunately "Evolution" does not talk to us.

    All we know is the fact that giraffes exist and at some time in their past a long
    neck was preferable (from a survival/mating perspective) than a shorter neck.)

    The reason for any animals attributes may not now be present in their environment
    now so sometimes scientists have to make educated guesses.
  7. 12 Nov '17 19:09
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Unfortunately "Evolution" does not talk to us.

    All we know is the [b]fact
    that giraffes exist and at some time in their past a long
    neck was preferable (from a survival/mating perspective) than a shorter neck.)

    The reason for any animals attributes may not now be present in their environment
    now so sometimes scientists have to make educated guesses.[/b]
    How do we know that a long neck was preferable? By circular reasoning?
  8. 12 Nov '17 19:41 / 7 edits
    Originally posted by @eladar
    How do we know that a long neck was preferable?
    Those with longer necks were obviously less likely to starve to death from food being out of their reach.
    Those that starve to death because of shorter necks are less likely to pass on their genes thus, in an environment short of food where much of the food is just out of reach of many of them, genes for shorter necks tended to be passed on less often than those for longer necks.
    Thus, in this case, the natural environment over many generations gradually selectively bred them to have longer necks and in an analogies way to how humans might hypothetically selectively breed into existence a new breed of long-necked dogs by only allowing those with the longest necks to pass on their genes but with the main difference that it is the mindless natural environment rather than a conscious person that favored the giraffes with long necks.
    The only part of that which is a mystery is how people like you can fail to understand or be confused by these extremely simple concepts that the average halfwit can easily understand.
  9. 12 Nov '17 20:45
    Originally posted by @humy
    Those with longer necks were obviously less likely to starve to death from food being out of their reach.
    Those that starve to death because of shorter necks are less likely to pass on their genes thus, in an environment short of food where much of the food is just out of reach of many of them, genes for shorter necks tended to be passed on less often than th ...[text shortened]... r be confused by these extremely simple concepts that the average halfwit can easily understand.
    Obviously low shrubs are the food source during times of foosd shortages. That is what the link said.
  10. 13 Nov '17 07:16
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Obviously low shrubs are the food source during times of foosd shortages.
    which may be not enough to sustain all of them during food shortages and the longer neck ones are less likely to starve to death.
  11. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    13 Nov '17 12:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Obviously low shrubs are the food source during times of foosd shortages. That is what the link said.
    So you are making the argument that the entire science of evolution is false because you don't see why giraffes have long necks. You figure one falsification negates the entire science. The only problem with your thesis is there are earlier shorter necked giraffes but hey, that doesn't bother you does it.

    Why don't you attack marsupials, how could they have possibly evolved that sac?

    Amazing.
  12. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    14 Nov '17 11:45
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Obviously low shrubs are the food source during times of foosd shortages. That is what the link said.
    Lowshrubs are accessible to all.
    Those with longer necks have access to leaves on taller trees.

    What do you not understand?
  13. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    14 Nov '17 12:42
    Originally posted by @eladar
    So does evolution give a reason as to why the Giraffe is as it is? Is there a direct fossil record that shows all of the evolutions of the Giraffe?

    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160629-giraffes-did-not-evolve-long-necks-to-reach-tall-trees

    Interesting that long necks did not help Giraffes to survive since during the times of short food supply Giraffes feed on low shrubs.
    Well it COULD'T be that there is more nutrition in a large tree, the volume of said leaves and twigs being much larger and therefore more leaves available than a low lying bush now could it?
  14. 18 Nov '17 20:02
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    So you are making the argument that the entire science of evolution is false because you don't see why giraffes have long necks. You figure one falsification negates the entire science. The only problem with your thesis is there are earlier shorter necked giraffes but hey, that doesn't bother you does it.

    Why don't you attack marsupials, how could they have possibly evolved that sac?

    Amazing.
    The entire field of evolution? No.

    Does it call into question assumptions? Yes
  15. 18 Nov '17 20:03
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    Well it COULD'T be that there is more nutrition in a large tree, the volume of said leaves and twigs being much larger and therefore more leaves available than a low lying bush now could it?
    If this is true then why did only giraffes develop long necks?