evolution

this is very surprising to me. you guys are suggesting very bizarre things. some of you are saying you believe animals are smarter than humans and some of you believe we cant survive w/o technology. thats funny to me. also, when you suggest any other species has evolved better than humans by saying "can we fly?" is ridiculous. the reason we havent evolved physically is because we have evolved mentally and have made technology. ultimately, we control the fate of the world. if we want to let a species go extinct then we will, if we want to save it then we will. we are the highest intelligence and that is why we are dominent, hands down; making any claim contradictory to what i just said would be ridiculous and laughable.

Originally posted by eatmybishop
thanks for the answer; however, i would have to disagree with you on one issue, "Its a common mistake to believe humans are the pinnacle of evolution"....

could an ape or an ant design a pc, could a lion make us get to the moon.... yes, all life is equal, but this is more a spiritual belief than a scientific one

Ants designing computers - No
Lions flying us to the moon - No

But to repeat, we can only do those things because of our brain power. Thats why I would agree that human brain power is currently the pinnacle of evolution. However, you must recognise that brain power is only one trait.

If you look at other traits you will find many other species are at the pinnacle; and humans would severely lag i.e.

Lung efficiency - Birds
Land speed - Cheetah
Swim ability - Tuna, Dolphin
Strength - Gorilla, many insects
Vision - Eagles
Resist harsh environments - numerous tundra / desert species
Fecundity - rodents, bacteria
Longevity - Reptiles

Most probably every species is at the pinnacle of evolution for one particular trait, we just choose brain power as an appropriate measure.

With our technology at hand some of the above could be overcome, for example humans can design cars to travel faster than any land animal....... in a strait line....... but I doubt there is any vehicle to make us as manoeuvrable as the cheetah, thompsons gazelle, hammerhead shark.

Technology is great but even with it we would still lag at certain things in comparison.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
this is very surprising to me. you guys are suggesting very bizarre things. some of you are saying you believe animals are smarter than humans and some of you believe we cant survive w/o technology. thats funny to me. also, when you suggest any other species has evolved better than humans by saying "can we fly?" is ridiculous. the reason we havent evol ...[text shortened]... ds down; making any claim contradictory to what i just said would be ridiculous and laughable.

I agree with most of your post. However, it still doesn't make us 'the pinnacle of evolution'.
I must also point out that although we can kill off some species we have failed miserably to eliminate some others - I cant even get rid of the cockroaches in my house in spite of the prominent skull and crossbones on the bottles of all the poisons I have tried. And don't get me started on mosquitoes, the malaria parasite or the HIV virus each of which has larger populations than human beings.

Originally posted by Retrovirus
If the Founding Fathers of the U.S. were originally of British origin, how come there still British people in world? Why are they not becoming Americans?

this is a silly response and has nothing to do with the evolution

Originally posted by eamon o
wow thats so loaded with assumptions. maybe its not so intelligent to spend major time, effort and resources going to the moon etc when mankind is still dying of hunger and killing each other all over the world? maybe its actually more intelligent to swim the ocean living off plankton, like the whale. the hitchikers guide to the galaxy made an interesting ...[text shortened]... hat it was actually the mice who were running a global experiment with us as the guinea pigs 😕

we are superior due to our ability to create....

(whether you like it or not science has already deemed the human race to be superior, hence the reason animal testing is allowed)

Originally posted by timebombted
Ants designing computers - No
Lions flying us to the moon - No

But to repeat, we can only do those things because of our brain power. Thats why I would agree that human brain power is currently the pinnacle of evolution. However, you must recognise that brain power is only one trait.

If you look at other traits you will find many other species are ...[text shortened]... ark.

Technology is great but even with it we would still lag at certain things in comparison.

but this is physical design.... we as humans have no control over this... we have gone from caves, sticks and stones to modern day living by the desire to learn... no other species shares that desire, it is the desire to create, whether that be a symphony, painting, or a scientific wonder ... you're giving the human race a bad name.... you need to consider all the good we have done through our use of knowledge

put it another way, put a cat in a room with a piano, how long before he writes a sonata? it wont ever happen.... proof, a cat has never written a sonata....

a cat has no desire to create, no desire to ask questions about the piano, to try to understand the piano... the desire to play the piano.... the desire to create using the piano

Originally posted by eatmybishop
put it another way, put a cat in a room with a piano, how long before he writes a sonata? it wont ever happen.... proof, a cat has never written a sonata....

a cat has no desire to create, no desire to ask questions about the piano, to try to understand the piano... the desire to play the piano.... the desire to create using the piano

I cannot either write a sonata, does it mean that I'm not intelligent, or just intelligent as a cat? I cannot either catch a mouse, less eat it.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I cannot either write a sonata, does it mean that I'm not intelligent, or just intelligent as a cat? I cannot either catch a mouse, less eat it.

but your race, the human race can write a sonata, hence the difference between us and the cat....

Originally posted by eatmybishop
but your race, the human race can write a sonata, hence the difference between us and the cat....

But just because your more creative doesn't make you better than the cat..... Are you a agile as the cat? Are you better able to survive in the same room as the cat? Actually are you as happy as the cat?

Originally posted by eatmybishop
but your race, the human race can write a sonata, hence the difference between us and the cat....

Nearly all cats can catch mice, even eat it. Only a few humans can write a sonata.

A cat, almost all cats, can survive in the wilderness. Not many humans can do that. I say cats are superior to man.

Originally posted by eatmybishop
but this is physical design.... we as humans have no control over this... we have gone from caves, sticks and stones to modern day living by the desire to learn... no other species shares that desire, it is the desire to create, whether that be a symphony, painting, or a scientific wonder ... you're giving the human race a bad name.... you need to consider all the good we have done through our use of knowledge

This is clearly not a discussion about the good humans have done through our use of knowledge. Although the benefits are only for us right? You may argue, "what about all the good we do for animals....." well some of us do..... but if it wasn't for humans we wouldn't need to be doing those things.

This line of discussion (albeit a tangent from the original thread) was about whether the clementsian viewpoint of evolution was more accurate than a neodarwinian viewpoint.

My stand is more neodarwinian - humans are the pinnacle of evolution for intelligence, which is just one trait. Other species are the pinnacle for other traits, as I previously detailed.

Originally posted by eatmybishop
put it another way, put a cat in a room with a piano, how long before he writes a sonata? it wont ever happen.... proof, a cat has never written a sonata....

a cat has no desire to create, no desire to ask questions about the piano, to try to understand the piano... the desire to play the piano.... the desire to create using the piano

put it another way, put a human at the bottom of the ocean with no scuba gear, how long before he breathes through gills..... proof, a human has never breathed through gills, so fish are more intelligent?

Do you see how eqully stupid this analogy is?

You are placing a cat in a room and asking it to immediately evolve the brainpower and dexterity to write music and play a piano. Evolution does not happen in situ within zero generations. Niether will a human evolve gills just because you stick one of them at the bottom of the ocean.

Your point is proof of nothing.

Originally posted by timebombted
put it another way, put a human at the bottom of the ocean with no scuba gear, how long before he breathes through gills..... proof, a human has never breathed through gills, so fish are more intelligent?

Do you see how eqully stupid this analogy is?

You are placing a cat in a room and asking it to immediately evolve the brainpower and dexterity to ...[text shortened]... ust because you stick one of them at the bottom of the ocean.

Your point is proof of nothing.

but its not the same analogy, your example is about survival, this has nothing to do with my point, a cat does not have to learn a piano to survive therefore he doesnt, neither do we to survive but we desire to learn, want to understand.... animals do not crave creativity

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Nearly all cats can catch mice, even eat it. Only a few humans can write a sonata.

A cat, almost all cats, can survive in the wilderness. Not many humans can do that. I say cats are superior to man.

there is no logic to say a cat can catch a mouse and humans cant therefore the cat is superior; this is to do with physical design, we have no control over this

my point is, and i wish someone would actually address this, is that humans are superior because we yearn to create