Fritz Haber is the reason Scientists should respect God / Religion

Originally posted by wolfgang59
You are crazy.

sometimes when i read your posts i feel like i need a dog to translate what i've written for you.... woof woof woof ... is that clearer?

wolfgang i have got my friend here to answer your salient points in this thread

YouTube

better ?

Originally posted by humy

I repeat haber was not a christian,

I have just shown you evidence that he was Catholic and most Nazis including Hitler were Christian. This is merely the irrefutable recorded historical facts that they were Christian. How is that NOT evidence that they were Christian?
Please please just humor us for just one moment; show us the EVIDENCE of Haber that threatens to give science a bad reputation that it certainly does not deserve!

I appreciate your reaserch, but i think you must agree haber was not really a christian he was jewish and conveniently became christian when the nazis came to power. Also he was the farther of chemical warfare, arguing for it even when the army didn't want to go there, if he was a 'christian' , you must admit he was quite bad at it. you can't invent zyklon b and call yourself a good christian can you, and yes that does give science, chemistry especially a bad name. If you look at his life its hard for me to think that he had any morality at all, the only thing he strongly believed in other then chemistry, was nationalism, he was supposed to be an ardent nationalist.

Originally posted by e4chris
I appreciate your reaserch, but i think you must agree haber was not really a christian he was jewish and conveniently became christian when the nazis came to power. Also he was the farther of chemical warfare, arguing for it even when the army didn't want to go there, if he was a 'christian' , you must admit he was quite bad at it. you can't invent zyklon ...[text shortened]... ieved in other then chemistry, was nationalism, he was supposed to be an ardent nationalist.

I appreciate your reaserch, but i think you must agree haber was not really a christian he was jewish and conveniently became christian when the nazis came to power.

So you have both “ haber was not really a christian” AND he “ became christian”?
So now, at last, you admit the well-documented historical fact he was once Christian -at least we having some incremental progress for this is one of the main facts I was saying all along despite your denial.

you can't invent zyklon b and call yourself a good christian can you

Strangely you say my point for me! Why? So Christians can do evil things (Nazis included) and thus not be called a 'good' Christian -so we agree then.

Originally posted by humy

I appreciate your reaserch, but i think you must agree haber was not really a christian he was jewish and conveniently became christian when the nazis came to power.

So you have both “ haber was not really a christian” AND he “ became christian”?
So now, at last, you admit the well-documented historical fact he was once Christian -at l do evil things (Nazis included) and thus not be called a 'good' Christian -so we agree then.

are you saying that he wiped out the jews in the name of christianity? that doesn't hold any water to me..

saying it was convenient for him to become christian in .... nazi germany ... that does...

Germany was a christian society before the nazis, so yes nazis were christian but it is very misguided to call it a christian ideology, they were interested in hinduism, paganism, the nazis were gradually working there way out of christianity , not into it. And haber was born jewish, do you really think jesus was calling him or was it convenience?

Originally posted by e4chris
are you saying that he did that, wiped out the jews , jesus happened to be one, in the name of christianity? that doesn't hold any water to me..

saying it was convenient for him to become christian in .... nazi germany ... that does...

what are you talking about? ...

are you saying that he did that, wiped out the jews , jesus happened to be one, in the name of christianity?

No. Where did you get that from? I said nothing about Haber “ wiped out the jews” -I didn't even mention the word 'jew' in that post!

saying it was convenient for him to become christian in .... nazi germany ... that does...

So what? So you admit he “ become christian” i.e. he was once Chistiian. That proves my point -so what is your point here? What does it being 'convenient' for him to become christian in Nazi Germany got anything to do with it?
Incidentally, he died about 5 years before WW2.

Originally posted by humy
So what? So you admit he “ become christian” i.e. he was once Chistiian. That proves my point -so what is your point here? What does it being 'convenient' for him to become christian in Nazi Germany got anything to do with it?

not sure if i can help you with that question, I have tried.

He was a very evil man and he shows a good understanding of science with no morals is like having a porsche 911 with no driving license.

Originally posted by e4chris
not sure if i can help you with that question, I have tried.

He was a very evil man and he shows a good understanding of science with no morals is like having a porsche 911 with no driving license.

-and he was Christian. That makes him unscientific. If he only adhered to scientific method for forming ALL his beliefs, he may have questioned his belief in this justification of making poison gas and never developed it. One delusional belief makes it all the more easier to have other delusional beliefs -once you can have a god, anything else goes. It is never the fault of science that evil Christians (or any religious nut) use it as a tool for evil.

Originally posted by humy
-and he was Christian. That makes him unscientific. If he only adhered to scientific method for forming ALL his beliefs, he may have questioned his belief in this justification of making poison gas and never developed it.

I feel like I demonising him in this thread, frankly its deserved, but the only good thing you can say about him was he was motivated by nationalism, he wanted germanies enemies dead at any, any cost. Maybe its human to think like that. But quite a few in the german military thought him a psycho, and thats saying something... Saying he was religiously motivated is just wrong, it was nationalism.

Originally posted by e4chris
I feel like I demonising him in this thread, frankly its deserved, but the only good thing you can say about him was he was motivated by nationalism, he wanted germanies enemies dead at any, any cost. Maybe its human to think like that. But quite a few in the german military thought him a psycho, and thats saying something... Saying he was religiously motivated is just wrong, it was nationalism.

Saying he was religiously motivated is just wrong, it was nationalism.

How could this be relevant? An evil Christian that is motivated by nationalism would be still an evil Christian nevertheless. The Nazis were examples of this.

Originally posted by humy

Saying he was religiously motivated is just wrong, it was nationalism.

How could this be relevant? An evil Christian was motivated by nationalism would be still an evil Christian nevertheless.

he was an evil scientist... not a christian... does opening a christmas present make you a christian?

Originally posted by e4chris
he was an evil scientist... not a christian... i don't know where you get that idea. opening a christmas present would make you a christian by that definition

an evil christian, who was born jewish,

So?

he was an evil scientist... not a christian...

And the two are mutually exclusive because....?
reminder of your previous quote:

(He) conveniently became christian when the nazis came to power.

-so even YOU said he was Christian! And YOU said he was evil!
so what have we got here:

he was evil + he was a scientist + he was Christian = he was an evil Christian scientist

(assuming he was very simply 'evil' with no gray area)

they do not make zyklon b at the ymca you know....

He is proof that at least one Christian did make zyklon b -him.

i removed half those comments for being trite 🙂 this is a hot headed thread. I don't want to cause offence. I appreciate your posts... but please drop this notion he was a christian in anything but name, i don't know why you cling on to it.

Originally posted by e4chris
i removed half those comments for being trite 🙂 this is a hot headed thread. I don't want to cause offence. I appreciate your posts... but please drop this notion he was a christian in anything but name, i don't know why you cling on to it.

but please drop this notion he was a christian in anything but name, i don't know why you cling on to it

NO:

http://www.nndb.com/people/884/000092608/

“...
In 1933, when Nazi race laws compelled Haber to fire twelve Jews on his staff, he was assured that his own position and life were not in danger despite his Jewish ancestry, due to A CONVERSION TO CHRISTIANITY in his twenties and his own work for the German military.
...”
(my emphasis)

http://www.nndb.com/event/665/000096377/
“(Fritz Haber ) Converted to Christianity “

http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=835

“...But by then, he had already converted from Judaism to Christianity in 1892 ...”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13015210

“...But anti-Semitism also grew as the century drew to a close, which preyed on Haber's mind despite his decision to convert to Christianity. ...”


-and many more links I can give that show that he became Christian.

OK, now I have shown you links that clearly show the historical account that he was once Christian, can you show me just ONE historical account, ANY one, that he was NEVER Christian?

Also, YOU YOURSELF have already said he become Christian! -so you are repeatedly contradicting yourself!

Originally posted by humy

but please drop this notion he was a christian in anything but name, i don't know why you cling on to it

NO:

http://www.nndb.com/people/884/000092608/

“...
In 1933, when Nazi race laws compelled Haber to fire twelve Jews on his staff, he was assured that his own position and life were not in danger despite his Jewish ancestry, due ...[text shortened]... YOURSELF have already said he become Christian! -so you are repeatedly contradicting yourself!

I am trying to think of another war crimminal who called themself a christian .... what I'm saying is if you tried to explain that form of chritianity to any priest, they would correct you and say no your not a christian after all...

I'm not disputing he converted to christianity, I'm saying he put it on like a jacket...