Galaxy 30 billion light-years away discovered

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24637890

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space#Understanding_the_expansion_of_Universe

Originally posted by woodypusher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space#Understanding_the_expansion_of_Universe

Whew! This article takes a couple of read throughs for me.
I have heard of additional space arriving in the universe as well as objects receding by movement.

I was surprised again to hear that the local group of galaxies is not subject to this expansion but Andromeda is actually falling toward the Milky Way. And the whole shabang of the local group is moving towards "the great attracter" in addition to some other super cluster.

Do you know if it requires energy to produce more space?


Do you know if black holes swallow up space itself ?

Originally posted by sonship
Whew! This article takes a couple of read throughs for me.
I have heard of additional space arriving in the universe as well as objects receding by movement.

I was surprised again to hear that the local group of galaxies is not subject to this expansion but Andromeda is actually falling toward the Milky Way. And the whole shabang of the local group ...[text shortened]... quires energy to produce more space?


Do you know if black holes swallow up space itself ?

Those are good questions. The 'pumping in of space' I envision would be like two conveyor belts next to each other pointing in opposite directions and going in opposite directions so if one candy bar is on one belt and another identical candy bar is on the other and the conveyor belts start moving, the candy bars separate but don't themselves have any energy expended on them. However, the conveyor belt takes energy so I imagine there is energy being pumped into our universe that gives and effect like the conveyor belt but of course much more subtle and probably forever hidden from science.

Space does get consumed in black holes, that is what gravity is, a distortion of space so space is getting squished inside the black hole and concentrated there. Matter just goes along for the ride, getting torn to bits in the process.

Andromeda is falling to our milky way but that is due to the gravitational bending of space because of the mass of the two galaxies being relatively close to one another, they are mutually falling to a point in space where they will inevitably meet and crash together, mainly the gasses in the two galaxies crashing together, the stars and stuff will for the vast majority be safe from actual crashes into a matching star.

That doesn't mean space is not being pumped into the separation volume of the two galaxies. It is just that the contraction of the distance between the two galaxies overwhelms the general expansion of space going on everywhere.

The reason they give 30 billion LY's as a distance, even though we can clearly see into space only 14 odd billion ly away is because of this expansion. In the time that has gone by, the actual galaxy revealed will be 30 billion LY away so we are just seeing the relic of the galaxy while the actual galaxy has gone way further than that, carried by the expansion of the universe.

Originally posted by sonship
Do you know if it requires energy to produce more space?

If you mean do you need a continuous supply of energy then no, but there are two ways metric expansion can be caused. One is what happens in the original Big Bang/Hubble theory where there is no cosmological constant. In this case the expansion is just coasting and decelerates due to gravity - once you've set it going it doesn't require additional energy inputs to keep going.

Normal energy causes gravitational collapse, not expansion. The the so called Lambda-CDM model involves a cosmological constant (lambda) which drives the expansion. To a first approximation the Einstein Field Equations say that Energy is proportional to curvature. When a cosmological constant is added it appears as a sort of energy term. So there is an identification of the cosmological constant with a type of energy known as "Dark Energy". This means a hypothetical type of energy is believed to drive the acceleration of the universe's expansion.

I was reading something that stated the shape of the universe could be different from what we may think ---- ( I guess it is actually very flat it is believed) We maybe be seeing reflections of distance galaxies because the universe may curve in on itself something like that


Manny

Originally posted by sonship
Whew! This article takes a couple of read throughs for me.
I have heard of additional space arriving in the universe as well as objects receding by movement.

I was surprised again to hear that the local group of galaxies is not subject to this expansion but Andromeda is actually falling toward the Milky Way. And the whole shabang of the local group ...[text shortened]... quires energy to produce more space?


Do you know if black holes swallow up space itself ?

I am sure you are aware that people knew about the expansion of space several thousand years before modern scientist discovered it. I would not put too much faith in the existence of black holes, since that is just a belief system at this point.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am sure you are aware that people knew about the expansion of space several thousand years before modern scientist discovered it. I would not put too much faith in the existence of black holes, since that is just a belief system at this point.

The Instructor

So what do YOU call that region of space near the center of the milky way that has stars swirling around it and giving off incredible amounts of energy?

It's amazing. Every time you speak you put your foot even more firmly in your mouth.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So what do YOU call that region of space near the center of the milky way that has stars swirling around it and giving off incredible amounts of energy?

It's amazing. Every time you speak you put your foot even more firmly in your mouth.

I call it the center of the galaxy.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
I call it the center of the galaxy.

The Instructor

What do you think is AT the center of the galaxy that makes stars, whole solar systems by the hundreds, swirl around and generate huge amounts of energy shooting out?

Originally posted by sonhouse
What do you think is AT the center of the galaxy that makes stars, whole solar systems by the hundreds, swirl around and generate huge amounts of energy shooting out?

Who knows?

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Who knows?

The Instructor

Come on, you took physics, surely you can calculate how much mass it would take to make an entire star system act like a planet around a sun.

Take a look at this article. Look at the image which is quite a number of light years wide and you can see for yourself the swirling going on and that takes mass, a LOT of mass, millions of suns worth of mass:

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/radio-x-rays-point-jet-our-galaxys-big-black-hole-2D11644678

Originally posted by sonhouse
Come on, you took physics, surely you can calculate how much mass it would take to make an entire star system act like a planet around a sun.

Take a look at this article. Look at the image which is quite a number of light years wide and you can see for yourself the swirling going on and that takes mass, a LOT of mass, millions of suns worth of mass:

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/radio-x-rays-point-jet-our-galaxys-big-black-hole-2D11644678

Come on, you took physics,

He must have completely failed physics. He must have taken his Bible to the physics exam room and, for each and every physics question, looked up a quote from the Bible and copied it down as the answer. Unsurprisingly, he got ZERO marks! The person that was marking his completed exam paper must have thought "what the f*** is this guy on!!!".
Oh, and he postfixed each of his answers with the arrogant condescending words "The Instructor". This and his Bible quotes would have guaranteed that his answers were the worst answers for a physics exam paper, ever!

Originally posted by sonhouse
Come on, you took physics, surely you can calculate how much mass it would take to make an entire star system act like a planet around a sun.

Take a look at this article. Look at the image which is quite a number of light years wide and you can see for yourself the swirling going on and that takes mass, a LOT of mass, millions of suns worth of mass:

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/radio-x-rays-point-jet-our-galaxys-big-black-hole-2D11644678

YouTube

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF9Yn5mgrjY

The Instructor

Back with the same lame response. Well I care and a lot of other people do too. We want to know WHY there is a black hole in the center of the Milky way and what is on the other side of the black hole.

You say you are interested in science except for that which refutes your brand of YEC but this has nothing to do with any of that so it shouldn't shake your timbers to think about it.