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Science Forum

  1. 29 Nov '14 14:52
    Why arent there any gravitons? The answer is gravity is in another dimension and only weakly affects us.
  2. 29 Nov '14 16:44
    The premise of your first question is incorrect. You can't show that something does not exist.

    If there would be gravitons, why haven't they been measured? Because we lack measuring equipment with sufficient sensitivity.
  3. 29 Nov '14 17:05
    What's so hard about finding a graviton? The Higgs boson was found...
  4. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    29 Nov '14 17:41
    Originally posted by woadman
    What's so hard about finding a graviton? The Higgs boson was found...
    Gravity is an incredibly weak force at everyday energy scales. The charge to mass ratio of an electron is 175 gigacoulombs per Kilogram. This means that it is incredibly difficult to detect in particle physics experiments, you'd need a beam energy approaching the Planck mass which is 2.435 × 10^18 GeV/c2. The maximum collision energy at LHC is 14,000 GeV, so there's a 13 orders of magnitude energy gap. When they switch it back on again they'll be hoping to see supersymmetric particles or some hints of Grand Unification, they won't be expecting to see gravitons.
  5. 29 Nov '14 18:07
    Originally posted by woadman
    What's so hard about finding a graviton? The Higgs boson was found...
    The Higgs boson explains why particles have mass, not how the force of gravity works.

    The reason why it would be hard to detect is just that it is so weak. The graviton is a "micro" particle but its effects are only noticeable on "macro" scales.
  6. 29 Nov '14 19:47
    Originally posted by woadman
    What's so hard about finding a graviton? The Higgs boson was found...
    And that wasn't all that hard now was it?
  7. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    29 Nov '14 22:29
    Originally posted by woadman
    Why arent there any gravitons? The answer is gravity is in another dimension and only weakly affects us.
    Just a thought, but your second statement refers to brane worlds. The notion is that our universe is one of two boundaries of a higher dimensional space, the extra dimension is small. All matter and fields except for gravity are restricted to a single brane (i.e. universe). At very short distance scales the gravitational force is strong, but it has to travel through the brane so it goes as 1/r³ until it saturates the bulk, when it propagates with the normal 1/r² rule. Nice idea, but there is no empirical evidence for it other than gravity being weak. It's a hypothesis so don't confuse its status with strongly validated theories like the standard model of particle physics or General relativity.
  8. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    29 Nov '14 22:46
    Originally posted by woadman
    What's so hard about finding a graviton? ...
    I cant even find my keys.........
  9. 30 Nov '14 14:57
    If branes are "floating" around super close to each other why doesn't their gravity pull them together? All those multi-verse ideas are garbage and unprovable.
  10. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    01 Dec '14 01:54
    Originally posted by woadman
    If branes are "floating" around super close to each other why doesn't their gravity pull them together? All those multi-verse ideas are garbage and unprovable.
    One experiment going on now is to detect the effects (if any) of higher dimensions, where you test for the famous inverse square law of gravity. The idea is to test that concept at closer and closer distances. I think they are measuring the gravity force now down to about 100 microns, so far no deviation from inverse square but they are trying to get down to 1 micron, measuring if there are deviations that close. If so, they think it would be due to extra dimensions curled up so small we don't notice them in everyday circumstances but gravity might change at distances very close together. News at 11.
  11. 01 Dec '14 05:10
    what sort of deviations ? what would that prove..only that it is so small it doesnt matter. Like the many universes idea where every time you make a decision (a measurement), a new universe just P-O-P-S into existance ..uhh, ok where is it? Some say it is occupying the exact same space & time. Garbage idea....like TIME all being in existance at once (past, present,future).
  12. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    02 Dec '14 13:49
    Originally posted by woadman
    what sort of deviations ? what would that prove..only that it is so small it doesnt matter. Like the many universes idea where every time you make a decision (a measurement), a new universe just P-O-P-S into existance ..uhh, ok where is it? Some say it is occupying the exact same space & time. Garbage idea....like TIME all being in existance at once (past, present,future).
    If there were deviations from the inverse square law, that would be solid evidence of hidden curled up dimensions. What it proves? That the universe is more than we see for sure. It would be Nobel prize material for one thing.

    That would open up string or Mbrane theory as having some real street cred.
  13. 04 Dec '14 19:39
    So its gravity that is holding back the advancement of science ? It seems that many different theories are thwarted by not being able to (mathematically) include gravity. Once the graviton is found and understood, the theory of everything (big & small) will follow immediately.
  14. 04 Dec '14 20:25
    Originally posted by woadman
    So its gravity that is holding back the advancement of science ? It seems that many different theories are thwarted by not being able to (mathematically) include gravity. Once the graviton is found and understood, the theory of everything (big & small) will follow immediately.
    Science advances regardless of whether or not we find the graviton, if it exists. A tiny minority of scientists is working on quantum gravity. Heck, a tiny minority of scientists working in quantum physics work on quantum gravity.
  15. 04 Dec '14 21:15
    Have you heard of Max tegmark ? I've senn him in TV documentaries. He believes in the Multiverse.