Higgs - Alternative theory

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
An "observer" in quantum mechanics does not require a person, nor an experiment. In any case, check out Bell's inequality.

I guess the main reason physicists tend to accept quantum mechanics is that it is very accurate.

All particles, regardless of the speed at which they travel, exhibit both wave-like and particle-like properties. The "wave" and ...[text shortened]... articles; particles are never a "pure" wave (sine) or a "pure" particle (delta peak).

The nature of measurement of position is what I was referring to. Using photons to measure position may affect the accuracy of the experiment because of the collision.

http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Quantum_Mechanics/Atomic_Theory/Electrons_in_Atoms/Uncertainty_Principle

Originally posted by Metal Brain
The nature of measurement of position is what I was referring to. Using photons to measure position may affect the accuracy of the experiment because of the collision.

http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Quantum_Mechanics/Atomic_Theory/Electrons_in_Atoms/Uncertainty_Principle

What are you implying?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
What are you implying?

That you can't measure the position of the electron without hitting it with a photon. This could ruin the experiment.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
That you can't measure the position of the electron without hitting it with a photon. This could ruin the experiment.

That surely depends on the experiment. I am fairly sure however that I have never heard of an experiment in which electrons were observed via photons.
I believe the most popular method for particle physics is the use of bubble chambers or equivalents.

Originally posted by twhitehead
That surely depends on the experiment. I am fairly sure however that I have never heard of an experiment in which electrons were observed via photons.
I believe the most popular method for particle physics is the use of bubble chambers or equivalents.

According to wikipedia bubble chambers are largely a thing of the past. They are also described as being filled with liquid or gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_chamber

Lets eliminate the simple things first. Are these experiments done in a vacuum?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
That you can't measure the position of the electron without hitting it with a photon. This could ruin the experiment.

There are several ways to measure the position of an electron, but the important point to realize is that an electron never has a definite position. It is spread out over space.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
There are several ways to measure the position of an electron, but the important point to realize is that an electron never has a definite position. It is spread out over space.

That is very interesting. Could you provide me with a good link so I could learn more about that?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
There are several ways to measure the position of an electron, but the important point to realize is that an electron never has a definite position. It is spread out over space.

More accurately, it is spread out over space-time. Its position in space can be very definite at the expense of uncertainty in time.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
According to wikipedia bubble chambers are largely a thing of the past.

Yes, I noticed that, which is why I added - or equivalents. My point is that we do not bounce photons off particles in order to 'see' them. Instead the particles interact with other particles.

Lets eliminate the simple things first. Are these experiments done in a vacuum?
No.

Originally posted by twhitehead
More accurately, it is spread out over space-time. Its position in space can be very definite at the expense of uncertainty in time.

That tends to support my theory that waves (in a vacuum) are disruptions of space/time.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yes, I noticed that, which is why I added - or equivalents. My point is that we do not bounce photons off particles in order to 'see' them. Instead the particles interact with other particles.

[b]Lets eliminate the simple things first. Are these experiments done in a vacuum?
No.[/b]

Why not?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
That is very interesting. Could you provide me with a good link so I could learn more about that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation

I couldn't find anything to confirm your statement in that link. Are you sure you posted the right link?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
That tends to support my theory that waves (in a vacuum) are disruptions of space/time.

I don't see how it does.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
I couldn't find anything to confirm your statement in that link. Are you sure you posted the right link?

The wavefunction, which in quantum mechanics has all the information about a particle (or collection of particles), is spread out over space about some expectation value <x>. The standard deviation of the position operator, Delta_x, is related to the equivalently defined standard deviation of the momentum operator, Delta_p, through Heisenberg's uncertainty relation. The Heisenberg uncertainty relation has nothing to do with measurement (at least directly) but is a consequence of describing particles in terms of wavefunctions. The Schrödinger equation will tell you how the wavefunction evolves in time.