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  1. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    155 years
    04 Jul '08 16:37
    Skip the first half, it's just video of each separately set to "dramatic music". Well except that the two enemies taunt each other a bit which is cool to watch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOE4RzS7JPY&feature=related
  2. 04 Jul '08 19:37 / 10 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Skip the first half, it's just video of each separately set to "dramatic music". Well except that the two enemies taunt each other a bit which is cool to watch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOE4RzS7JPY&feature=related
    "The old bulls look down at these stubborn cats, and test their
    will"


    There are a few misunderstandings both on the narrators part and on
    the part of RoyalPanthera who posted this video. First of all, there are no
    "bulls" in a flock of elephants (when a female is ready to mate, she will
    seek up an appropriate male).

    Second of all, there's no more rivalry between elephants and lions as
    there is between any other predators and their prey. They don't show off
    and taunt each other. The predators test their prey, and the prey
    responds with showing that they're not easy for the grabbing.

    Also, elephants are actually not a common feast on the lion's dinner
    table, simply because of the third, aaaand...

    ...third, lions (like any predators) will only attack when the energy
    required to slain their prey is less than what the prey will give in return,
    and when the likelihood of being wounded is close to nothing.
    This is why you never see a flock of lions (or any other predator) attack
    fully grown and healthy prey, because the cost in energy and the risk of
    a larger animal (like the elephant) causing some serious damage is too
    big to be worth the trouble. This is also the reason why lions hunt mostly
    at night, where the likelihood of surprising their prey is bigger (this is
    because they hunt in open spaces).

    Instead, lions always attack the weakest (or nearest when they
    attack a herd) in any group of animals. When hunting big prey
    especially, they will test their dinner by making short runs like they do at
    the elephants in the video. If the prey doesn't react too violent but
    merely trots after the lion, it's a sign of weakness and the lions rejoice
    at the late night dinner party just served to them. Mind you that a
    healthy elephant can toss a lion several feet, which could cause serious
    injury and immediately make the hunt counter-productive. In fact,
    elephants are some of the most vicious animals in that they can easily
    stomp and throw most any other animal if not to death, damn near to it.

    It's interesting how nature equals things out like this. If lions really were
    so powerful and so vicious that they could take on any male elephant,
    then obviously there would be no more elephants left, because big is
    always better when it comes to food resources so the lions would go for
    elephant every time they need food, right? And since elephants copulate
    rarely, there's not enough of them to keep feeding the lions.

    (Notice the 10 edits? I was wrong on specifics several times. And I
    misspelled a lot of words, as I usually do, but I think I got it right now.
    )
  3. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    04 Jul '08 22:54
    It just seemed to me that the cats were getting a particularly small elephant and not a huge one. no?
  4. 05 Jul '08 07:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by coquette
    It just seemed to me that the cats were getting a particularly small elephant and not a huge one. no?
    It's actually a jumbled up mixture of footages. First there's the normal
    behaviour of the female elephants living in a group using the same
    water as the lions. Not much going on here, because obviously, for lions
    to attack one of these elephants would be ill advised at best.

    Then there's a young male (look at the tusks) being cleverly defeated
    by the first lion jumping onto his back. There's no way for him to get it
    off him, and that's probably the reason he's slowly losing the battle, the
    lion tugging away at his neck.

    Then there's an even younger male (notice the stubby tusks) and he's
    just defenceless. This is rather odd. As I've been taught, male elephants
    often walk in groups of three or four with one alpha male (big, old with
    massive tusks) and two or three younger ones. But I guess that was
    wrong, or the alpha male and buddies had been shot, or, possibly this
    one just got unfortunate.

    In any case, I'm curious as to why ATY posted this in science of all
    places. Did he really want to discuss behaviour or what?..
  5. 05 Jul '08 07:52
    http://en.allexperts.com/q/Interspecies-Conflict-3754/elephant-Vs-tiger-lion.htm
  6. 05 Jul '08 14:17
    Ooooh, I may have to stand corrected here on the large bulls not being
    attacked by lions:

    http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/life_history/risk/lion_elephant_predation_2006.html

    They hardly ever succeed, though. But a very interesting article none the
    less, yes? I was especially surprised to read that the lions attack stray
    calves (mostly young males of 4 years and above), and even though
    there would be a herd of elephants nearby no one would heed the
    cries for help. Apparently the elephants aren't so interested in their
    young once they reach a certain age.
  7. 05 Jul '08 15:58
    I think they both taste nice with barbeque sauce and some crusty bread. Mmmmmmm, big game sandwich.
  8. 05 Jul '08 18:43
    That is nothing.

    If you've never seen "the battle at kruger" you must!

    This is a must see video.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    155 years
    06 Jul '08 02:12
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    It's actually a jumbled up mixture of footages. First there's the normal
    behaviour of the female elephants living in a group using the same
    water as the lions. Not much going on here, because obviously, for lions
    to attack one of these elephants would be ill advised at best.

    Then there's a young male (look at the tusks) being cleverly defeated
    by t ...[text shortened]... ed this in science of all
    places. Did he really want to discuss behaviour or what?..
    It's interesting footage of animal behavior, that's all. This isn't the "Debates About Science" or "Formal Discussions About Science" or anything like that.
  10. 06 Jul '08 19:51
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    It's interesting footage of animal behavior, that's all. This isn't the "Debates About Science" or "Formal Discussions About Science" or anything like that.
    I wasn't debating. Merely pointing out a few flaws in what the narrator and
    original poster of the video had to say about it. Then I was surprised to find
    out that indeed fully grown, healthy elephant bulls had been attacked
    (even if only one out of the seven was actually defeated).
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    155 years
    06 Jul '08 21:19
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    I wasn't debating. Merely pointing out a few flaws in what the narrator and
    original poster of the video had to say about it. Then I was surprised to find
    out that indeed fully grown, healthy elephant bulls had been attacked
    (even if only one out of the seven was actually defeated).
    Older elephants often have elaborately curved tusks. At what point does that curvature start to make them less effective as weapons? Do you know?
  12. 07 Jul '08 08:47
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Older elephants often have elaborately curved tusks. At what point does that curvature start to make them less effective as weapons? Do you know?
    You may find it fascinating to learn that elephants are right and left
    tusked, like humans are right or left handed. That means one of the
    tusks will always be shorter due to ware. I don't think that that particular
    tusk is ever useless as a weapon. Though I'm not sure.

    Well, assuming both tusks can grow such that the tip starts heading
    inwards and even back towards the elephant, then they're still rather
    useful for ramming things. So my answer would be a guess, that they're
    never really useless as weapons, if still not as effective once they grow
    inwards.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    155 years
    07 Jul '08 16:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    You may find it fascinating to learn that elephants are right and left
    tusked, like humans are right or left handed. That means one of the
    tusks will always be shorter due to ware. I don't think that that particular
    tusk is ever useless as a weapon. Though I'm not sure.

    Well, assuming both tusks can grow such that the tip starts heading
    inwards and ey're
    never really useless as weapons, if still not as effective once they grow
    inwards.
    I saw that when I was reading about elephants for this thread.

    It creeps me out to think of charging full force at like a tree and ramming it with my front teeth.
  14. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    13 Jul '08 09:28
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFJWpbM1maQ&NR=1
    This is a primate annoying two tiger cubs.
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    155 years
    13 Jul '08 17:10
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFJWpbM1maQ&NR=1
    This is a primate annoying two tiger cubs.
    That's AWESOME!