1. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    25 Mar '09 11:511 edit
    Originally posted by black beetle
    I cannot understand you;

    What is this so called "greater anthropic principle" and which philosophers brought it up?
    You know what? I really wouldn't listen to me.
  2. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    25 Mar '09 11:563 edits
    Seeing little sense in a principle requiring intelligent life to emerge while remaining indifferent to the possibility of its eventual extinction, Barrow and Tipler propose the:

    "Final anthropic principle (FAP): Intelligent information-processing must come into existence in the Universe, and, once it comes into existence, it will never die out."
    —[43]

    Barrow and Tipler submit that the FAP is both a valid physical statement and "closely connected with moral values." FAP places strong constraints on the structure of the universe, constraints developed further in Tipler's The Physics of Immortality.[44]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

    edit. Smacks of religion to me.
  3. Standard memberDeepThought
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    25 Mar '09 15:16
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    Seeing little sense in a principle requiring intelligent life to emerge while remaining indifferent to the possibility of its eventual extinction, Barrow and Tipler propose the:

    "Final anthropic principle (FAP): Intelligent information-processing must come into existence in the Universe, and, once it comes into existence, it will never die out."
    ...[text shortened]... [44]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

    edit. Smacks of religion to me.
    I see what you are on about now. The weak anthropic principle has had one success when Hoyle predicted a resonance in carbon 12 which allowed fusion past helium to happen in stars - and therefore the elements needed to make us. The weak anthropic principle just states that the rules the universe works by must be more or less conducive to our existence. It´s reasonable enough and fairly obvious. Strong versions of the anthropic principle. where there is something special about humans, or conscious observers - or in this case information processing are invariably piles of horse manure.
  4. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    25 Mar '09 17:064 edits
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    I see what you are on about now. The weak anthropic principle has had one success when Hoyle predicted a resonance in carbon 12 which allowed fusion past helium to happen in stars - and therefore the elements needed to make us. The weak anthropic principle just states that the rules the universe works by must be more or less conducive to our existence. ...[text shortened]... nscious observers - or in this case information processing are invariably piles of horse manure.
    Excellent answer.
    I'm out of my depth here so I'll apologise in advance but I'd really like to know
    what the entropic effects of say a galaxy of information processors would have
    on the expansion of the universe.

    Is it possible at all that dark energy is related to information processing?

    More pertinent to my original, ever so slightly psychotic thread.

    If multiverses exist, can the dead communicate with the living?
  5. Standard memberblack beetle
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    25 Mar '09 17:23
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    You know what? I really wouldn't listen to me.
    I really wouldn't listen to you too -but an optimist I remainšŸ˜µ
  6. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    26 Mar '09 03:09
    Originally posted by black beetle
    I really wouldn't listen to you too -but an optimist I remainšŸ˜µ
    Thank you BB but I don't need glasses. I just gotta stop writing dribble.
  7. Standard memberblack beetle
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    26 Mar '09 08:06
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    Thank you BB but I don't need glasses. I just gotta stop writing dribble.
    Never told you or anybody else that you need or that s/he needs glasses, I reckonšŸ˜µ
  8. Standard memberflexmore
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    26 Mar '09 08:42
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    Towards the end of your life the machine will reveal itself to you.

    It will begin with coincidence and deja vu. Slowly you will begin to question
    time and meaning. After a while you will understand neither.

    This is death.

    It is not the instant release we are led to believe it is but a gradual decline
    throughout life.

    Those that you love will r ...[text shortened]... hift. They will
    only see the inconsequence of a game unplayed.

    But you are dead, believe me!
    I agree ....

    Half alive exists ... it is a state we move into and out of ... we move into 5%, 10%, 95% and 43% alive ...

    Bit by bit as we grow older we spend less time in the high 90s and more in the low 30s slowly, slowly we are dragged down by the gravity of life and at times asymptotically approach 0% from above.

    Unless, of course we can also go out with a BANG!
  9. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    26 Mar '09 09:48
    Originally posted by flexmore
    I agree ....

    Half alive exists ... it is a state we move into and out of ... we move into 5%, 10%, 95% and 43% alive ...

    Bit by bit as we grow older we spend less time in the high 90s and more in the low 30s slowly, slowly we are dragged down by the gravity of life and at times asymptotically approach 0% from above.

    Unless, of course we can also go out with a BANG!
    So if I were to cross a road blindfolded say 5 times in a row with a 10% probability
    of getting mowed down each time. What would my chance of survival be?

    If I survived, would I be less alive than I was before?

    How would people with much higher alive probability rates perceive people with very
    low ones?
  10. Standard memberDeepThought
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    26 Mar '09 18:26
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    Excellent answer.
    I'm out of my depth here so I'll apologise in advance but I'd really like to know
    what the entropic effects of say a galaxy of information processors would have
    on the expansion of the universe.

    Is it possible at all that dark energy is related to information processing?

    More pertinent to my original, ever so slightly psychotic thread.

    If multiverses exist, can the dead communicate with the living?
    As far as I know the rate of expansion of the universe does not depend on entropy.

    Dark energy is a catch-all phrase for a physical mechanism that causes an accelerating expansion of the universe. The most likely candidates are a cosmological constant or a scalar field whose vacuum expectation produces an effective cosmological constant. I don´t think information processing has anything to do with this so no.

    If they are communicating then they are not dead.
  11. Standard memberDeepThought
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    26 Mar '09 18:29
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    So if I were to cross a road blindfolded say 5 times in a row with a 10% probability
    of getting mowed down each time. What would my chance of survival be?

    If I survived, would I be less alive than I was before?

    How would people with much higher alive probability rates perceive people with very
    low ones?
    Your chances of survival would be 0.01%.

    No, but you´d feel less alive because of all the anti-psychotics the psychiatrists would make you take.

    Either you are alive or you are dead. There isn´t a superposition of states at this scale.
  12. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    26 Mar '09 20:201 edit
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    As far as I know the rate of expansion of the universe does not depend on entropy.
    But it can be said that the entropy of the universe is dependent upon it's expansion right?

    So there is a relation between the universes expansion and entropy. How do we know
    which one is dependent upon the other?
  13. Standard memberDeepThought
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    26 Mar '09 20:52
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    But it can be said that the entropy of the universe is dependent upon it's expansion right?

    So there is a relation between the universes expansion and entropy. How do we know
    which one is dependent upon the other?
    I don´t automatically agree that the entropy of the universe is dependent on its expansion. By definition there´s no heat transfer and at short distance scales (in this era) you don´t notice the expansion so there´s no reason to believe that it increases entropy. Although the entropy density will drop.
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    27 Mar '09 05:38
    Originally posted by Thequ1ck
    *puts down sci-fi book*

    That's what I thought.

    No room for philosophy in the science forum.

    I'm off to spirituality where they can actually entertain these kind of concepts.

    edit. Actually that's not true, I'll just get quoted scripture in there, please don't make me go!
    you can join the philosophy club if you like.
  15. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    27 Mar '09 06:58
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    I don´t automatically agree that the entropy of the universe is dependent on its expansion. By definition there´s no heat transfer and at short distance scales (in this era) you don´t notice the expansion so there´s no reason to believe that it increases entropy. Although the entropy density will drop.
    Would you agree that it is in a closed universe?
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