1. Joined
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    11 Apr '13 04:055 edits
    Chess computers are so under rated and ipods are sooo over rated.

    Poor chess computers have bad name because they released so many crap ones... 'grandmaster tactics' - yes but a dead one. 'advanced search alogarythm' - 1.5 moves at a push. there are some truly awful ones. But saiteks are good and so long as you buy an 1800+ elo they play a nice game, and one that took me from the bottom of the chess club to half way up. The fact they stopped making very strong ones is a dumbing down of society!

    As for ipods - a good way to get hit by a bus to my mind, they save on cds but i like cds for some reason.

    But i also think both have sinister side - Chess computer chips - looked a few up and they find there way into encryption systems, missiles even. I was saying to a friend people think they're toys but can you immagine going to war against one? if Russia used a chess computer and the US used a general? they are often linked to ai - and some talk, they can form random conversations based on the game one says 'you win but you used the take back button'' . AI will come when you combine the thinking power of a chesscomputer with the data storage of a server - put the 2 together and you have something quite scary!

    When i was very young i showed my friend this 'magic trick' pick a card and i'll guess what it is! they did and i proceeded to count the cards out 1 by 1 until there were 51 so i knew his! thats not magic! he said. but thats how chess progs work, why almost all card games are 'cracked' by computers - my best computer thinks of 3000 - 4500 posistions per second! and even with 45 seconds is still just about beatable in the petroff, and servers pull that trick, detecting you by elimminating everyone else.

    With ipods theres something even more wrong - they pull the wool over your eyes so much people get hit by trucks! A creepy thing about the ipod.... Whats on the menu? Your finger! They put people in a dangerous bubble to my mind - a place where something can creep up on them.

    So the question is could you start a war with a chess computer?

    Can an Ipod make you oblivious to one?

    any thoughts folks? 🙂
  2. Cape Town
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    11 Apr '13 09:06
    These days, there are enough free chess programs, and real players on the internet that a dedicated chess computer is of less value than when I was younger. That being said, I did enjoy having one as a teenager.
    As for ipods, most smart phones have the same functions and more, so they too are rapidly losing relevance.
    CDs went out years ago.
  3. Joined
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    11 Apr '13 12:492 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    These days, there are enough free chess programs, and real players on the internet that a dedicated chess computer is of less value than when I was younger. That being said, I did enjoy having one as a teenager.
    As for ipods, most smart phones have the same functions and more, so they too are rapidly losing relevance.
    CDs went out years ago.
    re CDs They did but i still like them. people have forgotten how good music sounds on a proper cd player and amplifier - its like walking into a concert, and vinyl sounds even better if you have a good player, never liked vinyl as i always scratched them but they do sound good. ipods sound 'flat' to me

    re chess computerts can you immagine if some geek figured out how to connect one to those little remote controled helicopters - each one a peace and unleashed that on a town 🙂 would be funny but you could make a scary version
  4. Cape Town
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    11 Apr '13 15:21
    Originally posted by e4chris
    re CDs They did but i still like them. people have forgotten how good music sounds on a proper cd player and amplifier - its like walking into a concert, and vinyl sounds even better if you have a good player, never liked vinyl as i always scratched them but they do sound good. ipods sound 'flat' to me
    I believe that CDs, at their heart, are entirely digital. Therefore it is possible to copy a CD onto a computer and play it without the physical CD at with the same fidelity.
    The reason ipods sound flat probably has to do with what speakers you are using, and what bitrates of audio you have on it.

    re chess computerts can you immagine if some geek figured out how to connect one to those little remote controled helicopters - each one a peace and unleashed that on a town 🙂 would be funny but you could make a scary version
    A chess computer is specialised at one thing only: chess. It would not be any good at war, or anything else. When it comes to more generalized AI, there are far better programs/computers out there, but nothing yet beats the human brain for general intelligence (or cruelty for that matter). So I am a lot less scared of a chess computer with some helicopters than I would be if it was a human controlling them.
  5. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    11 Apr '13 22:58
    Originally posted by e4chris
    . AI will come when you combine the thinking power of a chesscomputer with the data storage of a server - put the 2 together and you have something quite scary!

    Let's pray nobody thinks of doing that.
  6. Joined
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    12 Apr '13 03:352 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I believe that CDs, at their heart, are entirely digital. Therefore it is possible to copy a CD onto a computer and play it without the physical CD at with the same fidelity.
    The reason ipods sound flat probably has to do with what speakers you are using, and what bitrates of audio you have on it.

    re chess computerts can you immagine if some geek ed of a chess computer with some helicopters than I would be if it was a human controlling them.
    Alpha Beta pruning could have military applications - think of moving tanks / helicopters. An AI-ish system doing that - 'swarming' would be scary.

    What worrys me about chess computers is they are capable of 'artificial stupidity' they use an alogarythm so inefficient it can stumble across winning tactics - and it can create fractals, find 7 winning lines in a posistion not one.

    If you used alogarythms that inefficient on a server , it would crash! but if it didn't you could find out almost anything, and they could be trained to get better every time, thats not AI but its getting close... also rather orwellian, like an ipod knowing every song you played.
  7. Cape Town
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    12 Apr '13 06:51
    Originally posted by e4chris
    If you used alogarythms that inefficient on a server , it would crash!
    I am really not sure what you mean here. Chess computer algorithms are not particularly inefficient for what they are designed to do - and servers can be tasked to run chess algorithms (without crashing).

    but if it didn't you could find out almost anything, and they could be trained to get better every time, thats not AI but its getting close... also rather orwellian, like an ipod knowing every song you played.
    No, you can't find out almost anything from a chess algorithm. Most chess computers can't learn. They just try out nearly every possible move. Other games just as the asian game called 'go' cannot be solved that way - there are just too many possible moves.
    We still have a long way to go before computers can compete with the human brain in terms of learning, parallel processing and even efficient storage. I have no doubt that we will get there, but it will take quite a while - 20 years perhaps.
  8. Joined
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    12 Apr '13 15:094 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I am really not sure what you mean here. Chess computer algorithms are not particularly inefficient for what they are designed to do - and servers can be tasked to run chess algorithms (without crashing).

    but if it didn't you could find out almost anything, and they could be trained to get better every time, thats not AI but its getting close... al I have no doubt that we will get there, but it will take quite a while - 20 years perhaps.
    A chess computer with a b pruning looks at roughly the square root of all possible posistions so it is efficient compared to that but very very ineficient compared to a human. like i said mine looks at 3000 moves per second (its a bit like they are blind and shift the pieces) humans look at far less 100 time less and can form long search trees - 3-5 moves much easier.

    In companies that use servers / sql few people would think logic that inefficient would have any use - but it does.

    There is a chess computer that updates its opening book every time it looses so they cam learn in a simple way if programmed to. Also they have a kind of random intelligence - they can stumble onto a good line by accident / persistence - like a dumb person making a good point.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Apr '13 15:51
    Originally posted by e4chris
    Chess computers are so under rated and ipods are sooo over rated.

    Poor chess computers have bad name because they released so many crap ones... 'grandmaster tactics' - yes but a dead one. 'advanced search alogarythm' - 1.5 moves at a push. there are some truly awful ones. But saiteks are good and so long as you buy an 1800+ elo they play a nice game, and ...[text shortened]... chess computer?

    Can an Ipod make you oblivious to one?

    any thoughts folks? 🙂
    The US military has been workig on using computers in about all phases of military operations. The programs and the technology keeps getting better all the time.
  10. Joined
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    13 Apr '13 03:333 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The US military has been workig on using computers in about all phases of military operations. The programs and the technology keeps getting better all the time.
    Will 'Terminator' happen? you think?
  11. Joined
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    15 Apr '13 13:532 edits
    I don't know about terminator, but we are a few buttons away from a george orwell novel, it bugs me. I don't think society could handle a big brother type system - in the UK the home office is trying to buy one - they want all 'data' going back 1 year - i would not trust them with it tbh...
  12. Joined
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    22 Apr '13 23:421 edit
    Here is the chess computer they couldn't let the russians have! the silicon bobby fischer!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_(chess_machine)

    http://www.chessgames.com/portraits/belle.jpg

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1384695

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson_(computer_programmer)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_9000
    (not released yet ... ho hum)

    cool stuff!
  13. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    23 Apr '13 00:12
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The programs and the technology keeps getting better all the time.
    You certainly have your finger on the pulse!
  14. Joined
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    24 Apr '13 01:55
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    You certainly have your finger on the pulse!
    whats the most hi tec device you have wolfgang?
  15. Joined
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    24 Apr '13 01:582 edits
    Originally posted by twhiteheadI am really not sure what you mean here. Chess computer algorithms are not particularly inefficient for what they are designed to do - and servers can be tasked to run chess algorithms (without crashing).

    but if it didn't you could find out almost anything, and they could be trained to get better every time, thats not AI but its getting close... al I have no doubt that we will get there, but it will take quite a while - 20 years perhaps.
    would a very high clock speed produce a better computer? I read with chess computers you can increase there strengh jusy by adding a faster clock -

    a spinning one is not inconcievable - obviously a mechanical one could only go so fast but there no limit if you used a superconductor....
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