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  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    11 Oct '08 07:26
    http://www.physorg.com/news142832816.html
  2. 11 Oct '08 13:18
    I'd say that low respect for math keeps a number of guys and girls out of studying math. We have a growing culture of "anti-education".

    I agree that we have a systemic flaw in US education and that flaw is that everyone is supposed to get the same education. Much better are other models where kids with different abilities go to different schools to receive different educations. Identify the smart kids, seperate them from the trash and let them receive a great education. That's the way most of the world does it and I think it is the right way.
  3. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    11 Oct '08 17:04
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I'd say that low respect for math keeps a number of guys and girls out of studying math. We have a growing culture of "anti-education".

    I agree that we have a systemic flaw in US education and that flaw is that everyone is supposed to get the same education. Much better are other models where kids with different abilities go to different schools to rece ...[text shortened]... great education. That's the way most of the world does it and I think it is the right way.
    That seems to work for male-female separation, females do much better without the alpha male BS that makes them feel inferior and as the article says, there are plenty of women with 'profound' gifts in math, and by extension, every other art or science but like my wife, she was told she would never do anything in school by her mother, her brothers and friends, later testing out to an IQ of 155 and her daughter, my step daughter, tested out at 170. I worshiped both of them and would have encouraged both to do anything they wanted and my wife did attend nursing school and got the highest grade pretty much ever in california history which shows how the degradation she experienced as a youth follows her to this day. It is just a shame women are treated this way. And in maths, boys of exceptional ability pretty much ignored too so it's more than a gender issue in the US. It shows how the US is becoming more backwards each year and how the US is headed for a climate of foreigners doing the science once done by native born americans. You can see the trend already, three japanese winning the nobel in physics, one called american was born in Japan (Nambu).
    The prize in medicine went to a french DNA researcher, snubbing the american team. So the US is going the way of many other empires, only an empire because of a huge military. I don't have to even mention the financial troubles in the US to see that, where corporate greed run by ten years of business as usual republicans who love to remove such pesky items as governmental oversight and regulations, sure, just trust those multi trillion dollar companies to do right. Like they say, the government you get is just what you pay for.
  4. 11 Oct '08 17:36
    That seems to work for male-female separation, females do much better without the alpha male BS that makes them feel inferior and as the article says

    From my experience, the "aplha male BS" does not exist.
  5. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    11 Oct '08 18:07 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]That seems to work for male-female separation, females do much better without the alpha male BS that makes them feel inferior and as the article says

    From my experience, the "aplha male BS" does not exist.[/b]
    You never had to deal with boys teasing girls to frustration, I have seen it time and time again as both a parent and when I was in school, girls get quite an inferiority complex as a result of being in class with boys around.
    When they are separated it has been proven girls do better academically. The ACLU gets all up in arms when such things are suggested though.
    They call it segregation but I call it using our resources to the best of our ability, that is to say, the educational system giving boys and girls equal chances. Boys it turns out, need a different approach to teaching than girls so it is better to have them in two different classes. That does not mean they have to go to all girl schools or all boy schools, they can play together at recess and all, just put them in by gender and tailor the classes to the best advantage of both sexes. The US is the entity that will fare better in the end and both boys and girls will be better educated. Obviously when class is up, we go back to being boys and girls outside of class but inside class, they are better off separated.
    As far as I know, that only refers to grade and maybe HS, I think if girls are given a fair chance early on, college years are not effected.
    I may be wrong about that though, not sure. It just seems that girls mature faster than boys so it seems by the time they reach matriculation age they should be able to handle male competition better.
  6. 11 Oct '08 18:24
    You never had to deal with boys teasing girls to frustration

    Not in math classes.

    If girls can't compete with the alpha male crap, then why is it that when it comes to grades in general girls outstrip boys?

    Once again, you demonstrate the fact that you just like to go off about nothing.
  7. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    11 Oct '08 18:31
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]You never had to deal with boys teasing girls to frustration

    Not in math classes.

    If girls can't compete with the alpha male crap, then why is it that when it comes to grades in general girls outstrip boys?

    Once again, you demonstrate the fact that you just like to go off about nothing.[/b]
    I am not talking out the side of my mouth here, I am talking about the upper ability range in maths, not talking about average grades in english or social studies or history, I am talking about the ignored genius. People like me with just superior minds are not going to shake up the world. I know I have talent but not world shaking genius. It is those kids I am talking about. Did you actually read the piece or just start spouting off without research, knowing you already know it all and so can venture pithy comments on the fly?
  8. 11 Oct '08 18:32
    Originally posted by Eladar


    From my experience, the "aplha male BS" does not exist.[/b]
    Just out of interest what experience?
  9. 11 Oct '08 18:35
    Teaching math for about 15 years.
  10. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    11 Oct '08 18:37 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Teaching math for about 15 years.
    Well that is something. But still, the subject is the ones with over the top ability, not your average high IQ type destined to a nice job with an MBA or such.
    I knew you had experience in math, you answered some of the math questions, I would never denigrate that and freely admit you know more about math per se than I. That is not my bitch with you. What grade level do you teach? I think the most influential are the early years, 8 to ten yo or so. That seems to me to be when a kid can be instilled with love for math or science.
  11. 11 Oct '08 18:39
    If it happens only with the very smart, then the problems would happen at the college level and post graduate level. It would have nothing to do with general education in the US.
  12. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    11 Oct '08 18:41
    Originally posted by Eladar
    If it happens only with the very smart, then the problems would happen at the college level and post graduate level. It would have nothing to do with general education in the US.
    That would be the problem. Not identifying real ability at young ages.
  13. 11 Oct '08 19:28
    Even if identified, the US model does not try to give certain kids better educations and other kids worse. Everyone is to receive the exact same education. We do not strive to produce the very best, we strive to produce consistency.
  14. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    11 Oct '08 21:46
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Even if identified, the US model does not try to give certain kids better educations and other kids worse. Everyone is to receive the exact same education. We do not strive to produce the very best, we strive to produce consistency.
    Well change that last word to mediocrity and I agree.
  15. 11 Oct '08 21:54
    Well then we agree on something. The US educational system operates under a terrible working model.