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Site Ideas Forum

Site Ideas Forum

  1. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    14 Jul '07 20:03
    We have etiquette and "netiquette", how about "chessiquette?" that would be "good RHP" manners and conduct? I think that we should have some dialogue about what are good manners and bad manners and good sports play and bad sportsmanship.

    For instance, "grabbing skulls" . .i do it . i think it should be done . . the RHP recommendation says to not do it unless etc . . . i think that is out of line, just the same as "touch move" is touch move in OTB play, or clock play is clock play in a tournament. "take the skulls" is the best way to play - in my opinion. But, what about sitting on a losing position .. ( i mean move and you are mated . .and still letting the clock click down for a month in a clan match or tourny?) Lots of posters say "it's the rules of the game, so be it." fine, it's the rules, but is it good manners?

    Other possible considerations: stupid invites (under 800 only wants to play 2400+; ugly flame outs in messages or forums; goading in open forums "not the welcome fun kind, but the ugly type . . .and sorry for the times that i crossed that line myself . . ..

    Are there others? Could it be a "site map" topical area?
  2. 14 Jul '07 20:32
    Originally posted by coquette
    We have etiquette and "netiquette", how about "chessiquette?" that would be "good RHP" manners and conduct? I think that we should have some dialogue about what are good manners and bad manners and good sports play and bad sportsmanship.

    For instance, "grabbing skulls" . .i do it . i think it should be done . . the RHP recommendation says to not do it u ...[text shortened]... ine myself . . ..

    Are there others? Could it be a "site map" topical area?
    I agree. There should be a chessiquette. A coquette chessiquette maybe?

    I would like to skull some one without feeling ashamed of it. I would like to think long of certain moves if I want to without feeling ashamed of it. I would like too have my opinion at some thread without being flamed. I would like to politeness, friendliness and common sense rule.

    But even if the ignore list doesn't have to exit, it certainly is necessary to have it, as a kind of protection from aggressive assaults from certain people.

    But can we agree of a chessiquette? No, I don't think so. There are strong forces that don't want one. They want to do as they see fit, and they are willing to flame for their case.

    Even if the RHP staff set one chessiquette up, it will be unlimited discussion and flaming about it.

    So I think the idea is good, really good, there are slim possibilities to put one up.
  3. Standard member Phlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    14 Jul '07 20:47 / 1 edit
    Taking skulls is great, no worries there. The people who are rude are the ones who will be mad at you for timing them out. You will find many forum posters come to the aid of a user when the other person starts the thread...

    "Some gerk timed me out when I was going to WIN!"

    I on the other hand will tell users take their time, I'm NOT going to time them out. I've sat on games for weeks if not months. That is my decision, proper etiquette would be for you to respect my decision because they are well within the rules of RHP.

    People sitting on lost positions are dumb, unless they really are thinking. If they are stalling the game because they don't want to lose, they are the real loser. There is no way for us to know if they are thinking and trying, or stalling. So... there is nothing we can do, there is no rule to cover it. We must wait, and proper etiquette is to wait patiently.

    One small thing about RHP that bothers me from time to time is users who complain or want to make lists of who's doing what wrong, or what is wrong or right. Everyone has different opinions on this, and several conflicting ideas fall within the rules of RHP. I do not like when users want to change a rule that affects everyone over a few users who might abuse any given rule...

    Changing a rule like placing a limit on 200 RHP rating points for an open invite, or make it 150, or make it 300 over a few dumb open invites is a needless limit. I'm sure I and many other somewhat low rated users here could make an invite for 400 points over and get a taker. Could be someone you know from the forums, could be someone you don't know. Making a limit is limiting, and I don't like that. Just look past the dumb invites, we know what they are.

    Moving on vacation is another. Many users, myself included like to move here and there when on vacation. Others decide to use their vacation as a clock. How can you know the difference? People wasting their vacation will eventually run out, and the game will continue. The best bet is to be patient.

    P-
  4. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    14 Jul '07 21:25
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    Taking skulls is great, no worries there. The people who are rude are the ones who will be mad at you for timing them out. You will find many forum posters come to the aid of a user when the other person starts the thread...

    "Some gerk timed me out when I was going to WIN!"

    I on the other hand will tell users take their time, I'm NOT going to time ...[text shortened]... l eventually run out, and the game will continue. The best bet is to be patient.

    P-
    the interesting thing about this post is that we disagree on almost every point and yet the discussion moves along forward because it was respectful and polite .. .. . that is the only point of this suggestion .all the rest are details

    just to be clear: I don't take skulls when the other player lets me know that there is something going on and when they will return, 2. i don't mind long think times . .. that's part of the game . but has nothing to do with sitting on a move and lose mate position in a clan match up or tourny and it's holding back a hundred other games, 3. it's not RULES .. .it's about "suggested" good behavior and bad behavior . . i think that most players will act appropriately given some guidelines . .and those who dont or wont . .well . .they are discovered pretty quickly
  5. Standard member skeeter
    515 + 30 days
    14 Jul '07 22:16
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    Taking skulls is great, no worries there. The people who are rude are the ones who will be mad at you for timing them out. You will find many forum posters come to the aid of a user when the other person starts the thread...

    "Some gerk timed me out when I was going to WIN!"

    I on the other hand will tell users take their time, I'm NOT going to time ...[text shortened]... l eventually run out, and the game will continue. The best bet is to be patient.

    P-
    Good stuff Phlab - well thought out

    skeeter
  6. Standard member Phlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    15 Jul '07 01:41
    Originally posted by coquette
    the interesting thing about this post is that we disagree on almost every point and yet the discussion moves along forward because it was respectful and polite .. .. . that is the only point of this suggestion .all the rest are details

    just to be clear: I don't take skulls when the other player lets me know that there is something going on and when they ...[text shortened]... e guidelines . .and those who dont or wont . .well . .they are discovered pretty quickly
    I can't say I let a lot of things bother me about the chess I'm playing. I move so slow I don't even know when someone is holding me up.

    I say Good Luck, GL, or something... and if I don't hear back I'm not going to label someone as thoughtless. I don't know why they don't answer.

    If they want to talk, I don't mind. If they don't want me to talk, I don't mind. If they don't want me to use a book, fine... as long as it's not a clan, tourney, etc.

    The only thing that is poor sport I feel is someone being rude. Even then, it won't bother me. I enjoy it. If it goes to far, I can ignore it.

    Is there something that is really poor etiquette when you are on a computer and have no idea who you are playing? We don't know why someone slowed down, we don't know where they are vacationing, or why they are moving here and not there.

    In extreme cases I guess we can have a strong speculation, but that is as far as it goes. We just don't play that person if that's how we feel about that user.

    P-
  7. 15 Jul '07 05:56
    Private golf clubs in this country have a requirement for a membership candidate to play an 18-hole round with 3 members - it's a tougher assessment than the average driving test, but a reasonable golf standard is not a requirement, it's to verify that you're civilised enough on the course (and at the 19th hole). Let fly a few 4-letter words, or a few divots that you don't restore, or wear your spikes into the clubhouse, and you don't even get on the waiting list because they don't want your $2000 ...

    This is a site which can be joined by anyone with an email address and enough fingers to use a mouse and keyboard, so there's no way you could make actual rules. I'd support the idea of a guide to acceptable behaviour though, but I suspect the offenders wouldn't read it
    :'(
  8. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    15 Jul '07 07:11
    Originally posted by MissOleum
    Private golf clubs in this country have a requirement for a membership candidate to play an 18-hole round with 3 members - it's a tougher assessment than the average driving test, but a reasonable golf standard is not a requirement, it's to verify that you're civilised enough on the course (and at the 19th hole). Let fly a few 4-letter words, or a few div ...[text shortened]... ide to acceptable behaviour though, but I suspect the offenders wouldn't read it
    :'(
    unfortunately, i think you are right
  9. 15 Jul '07 12:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by coquette
    unfortunately, i think you are right
    An interesting thread. I think that even if not many read it, it would be a good idea to have a chessiquette. We already have a suggestion not to take skulls, so people feel agrieved if you do. It would be a better idea to lose the suggestion not to take skulls, and to explain etiquette.

    I have put a comment in my profile which lets people know that I may take skulls, and I recall going out of my way to get one. I could explain why I did it, that I was going on vacation, etc, but the fact is that I used the rules to my advantage. I'd do it again , in the same way as I would in over the board chess. (Oh, and before you flame me, have a look at all 3 games where I have taken a timeout, guess which one it is, and tell me you would not have done it)

    My attitude to vacation has always been that if I am travelling for work, I might have access to internet, and might be able to play a few easy moves. I might not, and I definitely do not want to play moves in the difficult positions. So I set the vacation flag. That is my way of doing it, and while I can see people might not like others moving on vacation, it would be good to have Phlabibit's comments above in a chessiquette document somewhere - it is within the rules, so don't stress.

    My OTB club has such a document, explaining things like touch move, shaking hands, not leaving all the washing up to the committee. Why not have something here?

    Gezza
  10. 15 Jul '07 13:26
    Originally posted by gezza
    I have put a comment in my profile which lets people know that I may take skulls, and I recall going out of my way to get one. I could explain why I did it, that I was going on vacation, etc, but the fact is that I used the rules to my advantage. I'd do it again , in the same way as I would in over the board chess. (Oh, and before you flame me, have a look at ...[text shortened]... es where I have taken a timeout, guess which one it is, and tell me you would not have done it)
    In my profile I am very explicit: "I never remind, I always take skulls." No one can be in doubt that if I see the skull and my opponent has not asked me to ignore it, I will take the skull. However, if he ask me not to take the skull, because some good reason, I wont.

    (Once an opponent told me that he would soon serve time in prison and he was not sure that he would have any access to internet in there, he asked me to ignore the skull for a while. And of course I didn't. I held the game for a month and then he made his move.)

    Why not have a checkbox in the profile, "Will/will not take skulls"?

    Childish behaviour can be when a player hold his moves until the second before he really has to of some reason. But he is within his right to do so. I don't really care much about that, I have (too) many games going anyway. I sometimes take much time myself, because of various reasons, have work load, vacation, computer or internet line is down, or just that I find a particular position hard to evaluate, or perhaps I find other games has more priority. Whatever reasons are, if I take more time than the timebank permits I can always be skulled out.

    But what is really annoying is rude messages, within game or in PM's or even in forums. The rule is simple - behave as if you have your opponent in front of you in a real game OTB. Behave socially.

    But it is good to have this kind of chessiquette in writing somewhere, like a codex of behaving.
  11. Standard member Phlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    15 Jul '07 13:34
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    In my profile I am very explicit: "I never remind, I always take skulls." No one can be in doubt that if I see the skull and my opponent has not asked me to ignore it, I will take the skull. However, if he ask me not to take the skull, because some good reason, I wont.

    (Once an opponent told me that he would soon serve time in prison and he was not sur ...[text shortened]... is good to have this kind of chessiquette in writing somewhere, like a codex of behaving.
    Perhaps we need a check box that says "does not take skulls".

    There is NOTHING WRONG with taking skulls, the problem is people complaining when someone times THEM out.

    We have clocks for a reason, not to hold games up. I personally will wait a lot longer than others, and that is my choice.

    By no means is taking skulls poor etiquette! It's part of the rules. Move on time, and you don't get timed out. I hope no one thinks I think it's poor etiquette, if they do... they read something wrong.

    P-
  12. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    15 Jul '07 20:49
    Last night I had some rude idiot accuse me of making computer moves. Here was his reasoning . . I was making the same moves as HIS COMPUTER! Anyway, accusing someone of using a computer is very poor, unless you are pretty sure that they are. Don't get me wrong, I didn't mind the question, just that when I said no, I wasn't, and he would be able to tell after a few more moves because NO computer makes the kind of mistakes that I do, . . well . . . he just got ruder.
  13. 15 Jul '07 21:21
    Remember that when a person either creates a game or accepts a challenge, they are agreeing to the time controls as part of the rules. If they happen to run out of time and don't ask politely for you to ignore the skull, then I see no reason why you shouldn't take the skull.

    I personally wouldn't take a skull if I was in a losing position, but I do understand why someone else would. It's exactly the same if a player was in a winning position at a real chess board and his clock ran out. It doesn't matter if your 1 move away from checkmate, you still lose.

    Thankfully, I haven't played any rude players yet but I can imagine how irritating it must be to play against them. We have to accept the fact that there are some people who are like that. If they want to get themselves all worked up over a game then so be it. They'll probably be more likely to make a bad move afterwards.
  14. 15 Jul '07 21:27
    Originally posted by coquette
    [snip]making the same moves as HIS COMPUTER ...[snip] well . . . he just got ruder.
    The joys and benefits of an ignore button.

    I tend not to talk much when playing over the board, so seeing messages from an opponent seems odd. If they are rude, then it is just an attempt to distract you, and being able to shut it out is a real blessing.

    But it sounds to me as if he owned up to cheating with a computer. I believe there is something you can do about that.
  15. 15 Jul '07 21:41
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    There is NOTHING WRONG with taking skulls, the problem is people complaining when someone times THEM out.
    Hi Phlabibit

    The only trouble is that the FAQ says: Please be considerate with timeouts – send a reminder if possible

    That implies sending a reminder and hanging around waiting. I agree with you absolutely: there is nothing wrong with taking timeouts. A win on time is still a win. But the above has coloured a number of people's opinions such that they believe it to be bad manners. I'd love to see this text changed to:

    When you run out of time, your opponent will see a skull icon next to the game. They are free to click this to claim a win on time. While you are booked on vacation, your opponent will not be able to claim the win, so ensure you have booked enough time after your return to move.