1. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
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    01 Aug '05 16:11
    How about giving an option to make moves via drag and drop?
  2. Earth Prime
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    01 Aug '05 16:13
    i've wondered just how hard that is to implement. May be impossible without completely recoding.
  3. Standard memberWheely
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    01 Aug '05 17:06
    Originally posted by Coconut
    i've wondered just how hard that is to implement. May be impossible without completely recoding.
    Err, it is not possible to do that using official, standard web technologies. You need to use java or, even worse, flash for that to work.

    For me, the thing that sets this site above every other site, chess based or otherwise, is the extraordinary complexity it has achieved whilst working on nearly every bog standard browser. That and it's wonderful design of course.

    uChess uses drag and drop, without the addition of a "move" button and I have, several times, accidently dropped a piece into a legal, yet awful position!
  4. Standard memberBowmann
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    01 Aug '05 23:45
    Originally posted by Wheely
    For me, the thing that sets this site above every other site, chess based or otherwise, is the extraordinary complexity it has achieved whilst working on nearly every bog standard browser.
    You need to stay in more.
  5. Standard memberWheely
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    01 Aug '05 23:56
    Originally posted by Bowmann
    You need to stay in more.
    I'm trying dude but hey, it's summer, it's Scandinavia and the bars are over flowing with tall, blonde and generally buxom young ladies. What's a guy to do?
  6. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
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    02 Aug '05 01:09
    Originally posted by Wheely
    Err, it is not possible to do that using official, standard web technologies. You need to use java or, even worse, flash for that to work.

    For me, the thing that sets this site above every other site, chess based or otherwise, is the extraordinary complexity it has achieved whilst working on nearly every bog standard browser. That and it's wonderful des ...[text shortened]... " button and I have, several times, accidently dropped a piece into a legal, yet awful position!
    Like Bowmann said, you need to stay in more!

    Click-move is so 1990's. The rest of the known chess universe uses drag-n-drop nowadays. And Java should be no problem. I'll bet even this site uses Javascript. Last I heard, Java works on most, if not all browsers.

    The reason you're having problems with uChess is because it is flash, and flash sucks for doing live chess. Click-move sucks when you're trying to play blitz chess. Try keeping up in a time scramble when you have to press the 'move' button after every turn.

    In fact, the Browser-Based Live Chess Server is archaic. The best servers use custom software to avoid the limitations of a browser.
  7. Standard memberCrowley
    Not Aleister
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    02 Aug '05 07:58
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    Like Bowmann said, you need to stay in more!

    Click-move is so 1990's. The rest of the known chess universe uses drag-n-drop nowadays. And Java should be no problem. I'll bet even this site uses Javascript. Last I heard, Java works on most, if not all browsers.

    The reason you're having problems with uChess is because it [b]is
    flash, and fl ...[text shortened]... rver[/i] is archaic. The best servers use custom software to avoid the limitations of a browser.[/b]
    So, you just answeted your own question...

    The site uses JavaScript for the board, but D&D would probably mean applets, which means extra loading time.

    Other sites (including uChess) uses other, more interactive, technology because they are real-time sites.
    This site is for correspondence chess. Clicking on move is fine for what this site attempts to provide.

    BTW, why would you say Flash sucks for live chess? Personally I think it blows any other current technology out the door.
  8. Standard memberWheely
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    02 Aug '05 08:38
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    Like Bowmann said, you need to stay in more!

    Click-move is so 1990's. The rest of the known chess universe uses drag-n-drop nowadays. And Java should be no problem. I'll bet even this site uses Javascript. Last I heard, Java works on most, if not all browsers.

    The reason you're having problems with uChess is because it [b]is
    flash, and fl ...[text shortened]... rver[/i] is archaic. The best servers use custom software to avoid the limitations of a browser.[/b]
    Javascript is fine in my view. Cross browser/platform support, doesn't run like a dog, doesn't chew up vast quantities of RAM, doesn't need upgrading every ten minutes to ensure you can still access the latest whiz bang feature that lazy developers couldn't be bothered to implement with a little more effort using the last version etc etc. Flash has many of the same problems.

    Bit harsh maybe but it is very refreshing to see a site that hasn't gone that route.

    By the way, in my view, drag and drop takes more effort and is slower than the pointy clicky thing we have now.
  9. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
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    02 Aug '05 14:52
    Originally posted by Crowley
    So, you just answeted your own question...

    The site uses JavaScript for the board, but D&D would probably mean applets, which means extra loading time.

    Other sites (including uChess) uses other, more interactive, technology because they are real-time sites.
    This site is for correspondence chess. Clicking on move is fine for what this site attempts to ...[text shortened]... ash sucks for live chess? Personally I think it blows any other current technology out the door.
    Click-move is not enough when you're trying to do analysis of correspondence games. Try scrolling through a 10+ move variation quickly using click-move. Even if you can do this quickly, the problem is that most of the rest of the online chess world uses drag and drop, so you're potentially alienating a large part of the online chess community by not even offering DND as an option.

    Flash sucks for live chess, especially blitz. The animation is jittery and the piece movement is jerky and unnatural. Custom clients are the way to go. You avoid wasting bandwidth on drawing the board graphics, and you get to use a more powerful programming language than Flash.
  10. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
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    02 Aug '05 15:00
    Originally posted by Wheely
    Javascript is fine in my view. Cross browser/platform support, doesn't run like a dog, doesn't chew up vast quantities of RAM, doesn't need upgrading every ten minutes to ensure you can still access the latest whiz bang feature that lazy developers couldn't be bothered to implement with a little more effort using the last version etc etc. Flash has many ...[text shortened]... view, drag and drop takes more effort and is slower than the pointy clicky thing we have now.
    Click-move requires 2 mouse clicks per move while Drag-n-drop only needs one. DND overall is faster than click-move because of this.

    If your computer doesn't have the resources to handle a simple java applet, then you're living in the dark ages. I still see no harm in offering some performance options to those who do have a little more capability.
  11. Standard memberMIODude
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    02 Aug '05 15:45
    if they implemented drag and drop, I'd want some kind of confirm, or acknowledge button.. its always possible to let go by accident.. or., in my case, I have a faulty USB port that I occassionally lose my mouse..
  12. Berks.
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    02 Aug '05 18:55
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    Click-move requires 2 mouse clicks per move while Drag-n-drop only needs one. DND overall is faster than click-move because of this.

    If your computer doesn't have the resources to handle a simple java applet, then you're living in the dark ages. I still see no harm in offering some performance options to those who [b]do
    have a little more capability.[/b]
    The current method is hardly slow. It isn't afterall one which reloads the page after eery selection. Drag & drop if implemented like uChess would be a pain here for me, and if confirmed would not really make an improvement (if at all) in my eyes.
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    02 Aug '05 20:33
    Originally posted by Peakite
    The current method is hardly slow. It isn't afterall one which reloads the page after eery selection. Drag & drop if implemented like uChess would be a pain here for me, and if confirmed would not really make an improvement (if at all) in my eyes.
    Of course, BigDogg did state he would like to see it as an option. I assume he didn't mean to suggest eliminating the current interface altogether.

    Regardless, I agree with you. I don't see drag and drop as being an improvement. Especially if people are requesting that a "confirm move" button be incorporated; what then would be the difference?
  14. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
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    02 Aug '05 22:27
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Of course, BigDogg did state he would like to see it as an option. I assume he didn't mean to suggest eliminating the current interface altogether.

    Regardless, I agree with you. I don't see drag and drop as being an improvement. Especially if people are requesting that a "confirm move" button be incorporated; what then would be the difference?
    The "confirm move" button already is incorporated. I don't mind that, because mouseslips can be corrected. This ain't blitz, after all.

    I like to analyze a bit before I move. So it's not just the one real move I'm making, but also the variations I calculate before moving. And I really hate click-move, enough where I've stopped playing games here. Currently I'm only playing on another site which does have DND supported. I'd imagine there are others who are used to DND from all the other programs out there (Fritz, ChessBase, Chessmaster, Winboard, etc. etc.) that offer this option.
  15. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
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    02 Aug '05 22:29
    Originally posted by Peakite
    The current method is hardly slow. It isn't afterall one which reloads the page after eery selection. Drag & drop if implemented like uChess would be a pain here for me, and if confirmed would not really make an improvement (if at all) in my eyes.
    I didn't say the current method was slow, just slower than DND. This was in response to someone who claimed click-move was faster.

    I don't suggest doing away with click-move, nor do I suggest implementing DND like uChess! (I hate the flash-type implementation) A simple Java/Javascript mod would suffice.
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