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Site Ideas Forum

Site Ideas Forum

  1. 15 Oct '04 10:32
    Black should get an extra weighting when calculating ratings after each game.

    This is because it is acknowledged to be harder to win playing second in a game.
    In fact for 2 players of equal rating it is generally accepted that a draw is the best outcome for black.

    Within RHP, it is currently advantageous to play white every time.
  2. Standard member cludi
    Blogger
    15 Oct '04 10:43
    In theory, you're right. You could arrange white games only and have your ratings go up for a while. But you will have problems playing enough good players once your rating reach a certain level. That's why people subscribe to RHP. Subscribers to this site mostly play tournaments and clan challenges. These formats bring an equal number of white and black games, thus eliminating the problem you issue.
    btw in OTB chess there's no difference in rating calculation either...
  3. 15 Oct '04 10:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by howardgee
    Black should get an extra weighting when calculating ratings after each game.

    This is because it is acknowledged to be harder to win playing second in a game.
    In fact for 2 players of equal rating it is generally accepted that a dra ...[text shortened]... Within RHP, it is currently advantageous to play white every time.
    How many players get to have White every time? I would guess none. If someone keeps setting up challenges, always giving themselves White, then people will quickly learn to avoid playing them. I'm sure that the vast majority of players on the site will have about the same number of Whites and Blacks, especially everyone who takes part in clan matches and tournaments in which games are allocated in pairs, one of each colour. I see no reason whatsoever for this change, which would only confuse and complicate an already complicated rating system.

    Besides some players actually prefer Black!

    -Dave
  4. Standard member Arther
    The Turtle Hermit
    15 Oct '04 11:14
    Just for the record, statistical studies I've read do give White about a 30-35 elo point advantage. I don't think that is a really significant amount, especially among us patzers.
  5. Standard member Redmike
    Godless Commie
    15 Oct '04 12:28
    No other rating system takes this into account, so I think its stretching things a bit to call it a 'flaw'.
    I think we should keep the RHP rathing system as close to those in general use. ie as close to the FIDE model as we can.
  6. Standard member thire
    Xebite
    15 Oct '04 13:06
    Originally posted by cludi
    In theory, you're right. ...
    Which theory say that?
    th
  7. 15 Oct '04 13:09
    Originally posted by Redmike
    No other rating system takes this into account, so I think its stretching things a bit to call it a 'flaw'.
    I think we should keep the RHP rathing system as close to those in general use. ie as close to the FIDE model as we can.
    Fair enough, but within FIDE tournaments, each player will be black and white roughly 50% of the time.
    This balance is not enforced at all within this site, therefore why not give a rating weighting of 30-35 to black?

    Thanks for unearthing this interesting statistic Arther!
  8. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    15 Oct '04 13:26
    Originally posted by howardgee
    Black should get an extra weighting when calculating ratings after each game.

    This is because it is acknowledged to be harder to win playing second in a game.
    In fact for 2 players of equal rating it is generally accepted that a draw is the best outcome for black.

    Within RHP, it is currently advantageous to play white every time.
    Although it's presumed that White has an advantage the reality is we all play a different game.

    Oddly enough, I've won 297 games as White, but 335 as black, so there you go!
  9. Standard member cludi
    Blogger
    15 Oct '04 14:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by thire
    Which theory say that?
    th


    Theoretically he's right: You could play white only games to gain that little advantage that might earn you some extra points.
    That makes sense to me, doesn't it to you?

    But again, I don't really see a problem...
  10. 15 Oct '04 15:56
    Every one's so hung up on ratings here!

    It's just a tool to find some one about your level to give you an interesting game, Artificialy inflating you rating by the various tatics we see (be it always playing white, or a few players who with ratings 1600+ who have never played anyone rated over 1200) serves no purpose.

    Unless your rating is 2000+ no one else is going to be in the slightess bit impressed and no one is going to care. If your rating does manage to reach 2000+ using any tactic you autimaticaly get get lots of attention, 90% be some one accusing you of cheating!

    If your just ambling along playing your best game and you find some one with a higher rating who's used some neferious tactic to get there, why's that gonna bother you. I take a certain amount of pride in my rating, when it goes up I'm happy and when it goes down I'm sad but I don't care about your rating unless I'm playing you. If you have an artificaily high rating I'm gonna have a nice easy time of it and if your using a computer to boost your rating thats just one loss for me beofre you disapear off into the 1800+ where I'm never gonna play you.

    You rating only means something to you, not to anyone else, and conversly everyones elses rating means nothing to you on a site with some many thousands of users...
  11. 20 Oct '04 10:22
    So there are no GOOD reasons why the weighting of 30-35 points should not be given to black as an incentive to play the disadvantaged side?

    Maybe all the other sites do not do this.
    I don't want this site to be like all the rest; I want it to be the best!

    Russ: DO IT!
  12. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    20 Oct '04 10:36
    Originally posted by howardgee
    So there are no GOOD reasons why the weighting of 30-35 points should not be given to black as an incentive to play the disadvantaged side?
    I think you're viewing this as an issue purely because you're a non-subscriber and are unable to enter tournaments or join clans.

    Most subscribers mostly play clan and tournament games which are two legged affairs, one game each as white, one game as black.

    The only time I play challenges is against my friends or if I meet someone interesting in the forums. So far, I haven't thought anybody was abusing the system by putting themselves as white all the time.

    I don't think this weighting is required. For the record, as white: Won 46 Drawn 2 Lost 10, as black: Won 45 Drawn 2 Lost 11.

    D
  13. Standard member orfeo
    Missing 285 + 1
    20 Oct '04 11:02
    Originally posted by howardgee
    So there are no GOOD reasons why the weighting of 30-35 points should not be given to black as an incentive to play the disadvantaged side?

    Maybe all the other sites do not do this.
    I don't want this site to be like all the rest; I want it to be the best!

    Russ: DO IT!
    How's this for a good reason? I greatly prefer playing as black, given my counterpunching style of play. You can play as white, I'll play as black, we'll both be happy and whenever you castle kingside I'll nail you in the corner (my personal favourite strategy and I don't care who knows it).

    Against normal players, the incentive to play the disadvantaged side is that you'll get a game.
  14. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    20 Oct '04 13:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by howardgee
    So there are no GOOD reasons why the weighting of 30-35 points should not be given to black as an incentive to play the disadvantaged side?

    Maybe all the other sites do not do this.
    I don't want this site to be like all the rest; I want it to be the best!

    Russ: DO IT!
    Get a star! Sha na na na, sha na na na na na (bah) Yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip, mum um um um um um, Get a star, Sha na na na, sha na na na na na! Get a star!

  15. 21 Oct '04 04:00
    Originally posted by Exy
    Get a star! Sha na na na, sha na na na na na (bah) Yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip, mum um um um um um, Get a star, Sha na na na, sha na na na na na! [b]Get a star!

    [/b]
    I will do, when i get a credit card!