1. Subscriberdivegeester
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    16 Jan '10 16:56
    This is our* site and as a paying customer I do not see why 'Forum Moderation' cannot be discussed in open forum as long as there is no abuse. Censorship should be restricted to vulgar comment, not topic. The level of moderation should be up for open debate.

    "Our site" refers to recognizing a collective responsibility for, and control of content in the forums.
  2. Subscriberdivegeester
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    16 Jan '10 17:19
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    I agree, my point was to the fact that "Forum Moderation" is a "topic" itself, and that it should not be a restricted topic. I'm not saying that an inappropriate topic should be allowed. The issue of discontent with moderation is multi-factorial and aggravated by the topic being driven underground.
  3. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    16 Jan '10 17:32
    Originally posted by divegeester
    This is our* site and as a paying customer I do not see why 'Forum Moderation' cannot be discussed in open forum as long as there is no abuse. Censorship should be restricted to vulgar comment, not topic. The level of moderation should be up for open debate.

    [b]"Our site"
    refers to recognizing a collective responsibility for, and control of content in the forums.[/b]
    I agree, Rec'd
  4. Subscriberdivegeester
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    16 Jan '10 18:482 edits
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Non-subs cannot alert posts, so that point is moot I feel. Being able to reply to the moderator is a good thing I agree as posters can at least feel they have some immediate recourse or explanation.

    We are (imo) being censored more, but the consensus from those who are interested and have commented, seems to be that the overbearing censorship is sucking the fun out of the public forums.

    No I don't feel that this is a case off over-zealousness and over-sensitivity. I feel it is a case of a certain mod(s) being more interested in exercising their personal opinion and power rather than being objective and considering what's best for the forum and considering the spirit in which the post was made.

    Example: A couple of weeks ago a thread removed because the OP had the word "prick" interpolated into a joke/fake website address (not directed at anyone in particular). In this day and age is that really regarded as offensive to the point of censorship? And should we really be expected to accept that an experienced rhp member and supposedly intelligent person cannot see the humor with the overall post? There is a fine line between over-zealousness and incompetence, and a further fine line between incompetence and personal agendas.
  5. SubscriberMctayto
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    16 Jan '10 19:26
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    So increase the age limit
  6. THORNINYOURSIDE
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    16 Jan '10 20:14
    A lot of the moderation is down more to the perceived relationship between the reportee and the reported, rather than heavy handed moderation.

    There is the issue of swear words not being allowed, however these are often obfuscated and get through. If poster A hates poster B and sees that B has put ???? off in a post then, he will report the transgression resulting in the post being removed. However poster C, a friend of A also says ???? off and if not brought to attention of mods the post will remain.

    Until there is uniformity on the site, moderation will always be seen as being biased against some posters. Thats the way of the world.
  7. Forum Moderator
    16 Jan '10 21:08
    Originally posted by divegeester
    This is our* site and as a paying customer I do not see why 'Forum Moderation' cannot be discussed in open forum as long as there is no abuse. Censorship should be restricted to vulgar comment, not topic. The level of moderation should be up for open debate.

    [b]"Our site"
    refers to recognizing a collective responsibility for, and control of content in the forums.[/b]
    The flaw in what you're saying is that you're claiming it's your site. Red Hot Pawn is not your site, it belongs to the administrators. When moderating happens the moderators are following the wishes of the site administrators. There are plenty of times where the wishes of the administrators conflict with the wishes of the community in terms of forum posting guidelines and rules. The moderators do their thing on behalf of the site administrators and that's the side moderation is going to fall on.

    Paying for the site doesn't mean that you own the site. It means you are entitled to the privileges that come with subscription. Subscribers don't get to control the content of the forums. Subscribers are allowed extended privilege in their forum use.

    There will always be posters that want to cry foul when they can't post every little thing they wish to post. Oh well. There's hundreds of thousands of words in the English language and it's not necessary to focus on the inability to post certain words or certain words that convey a specific context. There really are lots of other words and phrases available.

    Making forum moderation an 'us' vs 'them' debate is a bit off base. Moderators are subscribers, and posters, and play chess here too. It's not just yours, or theirs - it's "ours". Ours to the extent that subscription allows it to be ours, that is.
  8. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    16 Jan '10 22:58
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    I agree!
  9. Joined
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    16 Jan '10 23:02
    Originally posted by Forum Moderator
    The flaw in what you're saying is that you're claiming it's your site. Red Hot Pawn is not your site, it belongs to the administrators. When moderating happens the moderators are following the wishes of the site administrators. There are plenty of times where the wishes of the administrators conflict with the wishes of the community in terms of forum ...[text shortened]... t's "ours". Ours to the extent that subscription allows it to be ours, that is.
    dude, when dive said 'our' he meant 'our' not 'mine' as you so wish to twist his post into. don't puts words into peoples mouths, you're giving a bad name to the rest of the forum moderators.

    for a start dive is not taking about the 'site' just it's forums, forums that lets face it the administrators don't really care about. they're nothing making any money directly from them and they put their trust into a few people to keep the forum 'user friendly' we'll say. it is a 13+ site, certain things shouldn't be allowed and no one is debating that fact.

    what many of us are seeing since the new mods came to town though is a much stricter, less enjoyable forum. petty things are being removed that wouldn't have been under the old team, yes it's the responsibility of the poster to post within the 'forum guidelines' but as a mod you don't need to take those guidelines as your koran, common sense plus a sense of humor should be used when dealing with leftfield posts and certain alerts.

    When moderating happens the moderators are following the wishes of the site administrators

    funny that because the new over moderating style is pushing people not to renew their subscription... how do you think the admin feel about that?

    Paying for the site doesn't mean that you own the site. It means you are entitled to the privileges that come with subscription. Subscribers don't get to control the content of the forums. Subscribers are allowed extended privilege in their forum use.

    there you do putting words into people mouths again, in a quite patronising way i might add. the forums are free to use, subscriptions don't come into play here, non-subs (once they've been here a while) should be allowed to alert posts as well imo.
  10. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    16 Jan '10 23:061 edit
    Originally posted by Forum Moderator
    The flaw in what you're saying is that you're claiming it's your site. Red Hot Pawn is not your site, it belongs to the administrators. When moderating happens the moderators are following the wishes of the site administrators. There are plenty of times where the wishes of the administrators conflict with the wishes of the community in terms of forum t's "ours". Ours to the extent that subscription allows it to be ours, that is.
    I think it is all just this simple: The modding changed when the new mods came on board.

    I call this our site, as I am a Member of RHP and a paying subscriber. I am quite aware the OWNERS can kick me out. I think the whole issue here is that the modding actually has changed, and we don't know where the line is anymore.
  11. Forum Moderator
    16 Jan '10 23:29
    Originally posted by Very Rusty
    I think it is all just this simple: The modding changed when the new mods came on board.

    I call this our site, as I am a Member of RHP and a paying subscriber. I am quite aware the OWNERS can kick me out. I think the whole issue here is that the modding actually has changed, and we don't know where the line is anymore.
    Hi VR,
    There are 4 new users contributing to the moderation of the forum, that is half of the team, you can't expect the new mods to be "born" with the experience of another who has been modding for years, you just won't get that, it is impossible. Four different people to get used to the system, four different personalities to blend in. You can hardly expect us to be perfect after a month on the job. I've learned a lot in this month or so we are on the job, I've become much less strict and probably will be getting even less strict with experience. I think you have to be a little more patient for the new mods to get the experience necessary not to make some mistakes.
  12. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    16 Jan '10 23:391 edit
    Originally posted by Forum Moderator
    Hi VR,
    There are 4 new users contributing to the moderation of the forum, that is half of the team, you can't expect the new mods to be "born" with the experience of another who has been modding for years, you just won't get that, it is impossible. Four different people to get used to the system, four different personalities to blend in. You can har e more patient for the new mods to get the experience necessary not to make some mistakes.
    I just pointed out the obvious is all.

    It becomes confusing to the rest of us regular forum posters when we don't know where the line is anymore. Many of us have been bantering back and forth for years, some much longer than I.

    We all know that it is not personal. And that is true for 99% of the cases I am sure. It is just everyone likes to feel like they have won the argument. Who really wins, and what are you winning? It is all playful banter as far as I am concerned.

    Certainly you are going to get people who just don't like the way the other person comes across in the forums. That is just human nature, but we all have to learn to get along at some point. Do you actually think I am serious on every single thing I post in the forums?
  13. Forum Moderator
    16 Jan '10 23:58
    A sensible debate is healthy for the development of the forums 🙂

    One thing that has been i have noticed lately is a rise in users alerting apparently friendly banter "for the LULZ", or just because it is banter. To the new moderators this makes the line really messy as we're then looked to be "over sensitive" or "inconsistent" which are charges which have been thrown at the moderators.

    Two incidents today without mentioning names are identical

    User A posts something then User B posts something about User A. User A alerts User B's post as a Personal Attack. User B says it's banter that has gone on for years. If its banter then why does User A alert?

    Anyway, there is going to be inconsistency - there are several of us (i am different from the above ones) - we are different ages, from different countries and have different experiences of this site.
  14. Subscriberdivegeester
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    16 Jan '10 23:59
    Originally posted by Forum Moderator
    The flaw in what you're saying is that you're claiming it's your site. Red Hot Pawn is not your site, it belongs to the administrators. When moderating happens the moderators are following the wishes of the site administrators. There are plenty of times where the wishes of the administrators conflict with the wishes of the community in terms of forum ...[text shortened]... t's "ours". Ours to the extent that subscription allows it to be ours, that is.
    For you to have the gall to post in this thread as a "moderator" pretending that you misinterpret my parsimonious OP (which contains a qualified comment "our site"); and state that I am claiming that "the site is mine" is an insult to forum readers intelligence and merely confirms your disingenuous approach to your role.
  15. Forum Moderator
    16 Jan '10 23:59
    Originally posted by Very Rusty
    I just pointed out the obvious is all.

    It becomes confusing to the rest of us regular forum posters when we don't know where the line is anymore. Many of us have been bantering back and forth for years, some much longer than I.

    We all know that it is not personal. And that is true for 99% of the cases I am sure. It is just everyone likes to feel l ...[text shortened]... at some point. Do you actually think I am serious on every single thing I post in the forums?
    Oh certainly not, I'm just asking for a little patience while we are adjusting to the system. We all make mistakes, please don't take those too at heart. I have made a couple and have learned from them, and hope to continue learning from them while I can.

    I understand your position and I do my best to please it, I'm just asking for a little more patience is all 😉
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