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Site Ideas Forum

Site Ideas Forum

  1. 04 Feb '08 18:29
    I am playing some game. Whenever I want to see its game log, I get the info that the game has incomplete log.

    I've read the announcement about database problem, I understand that some old moves were lost, but as far as I understand the moves made AFTER the outage are saved. So it would be nice if they were available. The fact that moves 8-10 are lost need not make it impossible to recall moves 12-17...

    So - please, leave some warning, but enable the game log back even if it is incomplete...
  2. Subscriber Russ
    RHP Code Monkey
    04 Feb '08 20:25
    Sorry, this is not possible. To build up the history of the game to its current state, we need all the moves leading up to that position.

    -Russ
  3. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    04 Feb '08 20:46
    Originally posted by Russ
    Sorry, this is not possible. To build up the history of the game to its current state, we need all the moves leading up to that position.

    -Russ
    I have only a couple of games with max 1 or 2 moves missing.

    Any way I can rebuild the games? It's incredibly frustrating not being able to click through the moves, especially seeing as I am a slow player, and only remember the game by clicking through it.

    Something that would be fine by me would be that in the games where the history is incomplete, that you display a text string of the pgn that you have stored. That way at least, I can fix any discrepancies and use an external program to parse the game.

    D
  4. 04 Feb '08 21:37
    Maybe incomplete games could be converted to "set position" games with first position after loss as fake initial position and the remainders of anything earlier saved as textual comment or sth similar?
  5. Subscriber Russ
    RHP Code Monkey
    04 Feb '08 21:49
    Take a look at my most recent posts in the site announcements forum for details on patching up your game history.

    -Russ
  6. 04 Feb '08 21:56
    I'd recommend putting some new announcement about this, I abandoned that thread once it started to be 7 pages long quarrel about timeouts and others may also miss new admin remark.

    I patched all my 3 games which suffered, so I am happy, fortunately it was 2-4 moves only.

    But I must say that the remark about irrecoverable mistakes is not very encouraging, I believe especially people who play faster would find it far easier to patch games if they could backtrack in case of an error.

    Also, the software seems to be encouraging errors: I enter the move 29 a1c1 (say), save it, then the move to be updated changes to 30 but for some reason the text a1c1 is preserved. This will never be correct move! And once I almost submitted it as it seemed to me the system did not preserve the move....
  7. 04 Feb '08 22:08 / 1 edit
    Ah, some more ideas:

    a) what about putting link _Patch_game_ in the comment about missing log?

    b) I believe games which lack one move could be trivially patched via automatic process (in most brute form - generate all legal moves and check which output position matches expected result). With two half-moves lacking similar method should also work.

    c) With higher number of half-moves lacking one could consider (in case players do not patch the game) an attempt to fill the moves with a chess engine. An idea like: set engine to multipv mode with high pv (even 20-30), set it to fixed depth equal or slightly greater than the number of missing moves, scan offered lines for the matching position in the suggested lines. Unless there were blunders played as missed moves, the chances to catch what escaped are reasonable.
  8. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    04 Feb '08 22:50
    Originally posted by Mekk
    I enter the move 29 a1c1 (say), save it, then the move to be updated changes to 30 but for some reason the text a1c1 is preserved. This will never be correct move!
    I also thought that was a bit strange.

    Also, I think it'd help a lot if the FEN of the last known good position was shown under the diagram, so one could copy it into chesspad (or whatever) ,play around and figure out the move order.

    D
  9. 04 Feb '08 23:08
    Originally posted by Mekk
    Ah, some more ideas:

    a) what about putting link _Patch_game_ in the comment about missing log?

    b) I believe games which lack one move could be trivially patched via automatic process (in most brute form - generate all legal moves and check which output position matches expected result). With two half-moves lacking similar method should also work.

    c) Wi ...[text shortened]... ss there were blunders played as missed moves, the chances to catch what escaped are reasonable.
    b) That's a lot of difficult code to write - the site works by validating a single move. I don't believe that there is anything around to generate 'every possible move'. The chances of getting such code written and de-bugged in a timely way would negate its usefulness.

    c) Is it possible to get engines to play toward a given position?

    I think Russ has done a great job in getting the tool ready so quickly - it's not exactly polished, but it does the job.
    There is no point investing in (excessive) time and thought into a 'crash recovery' tool - much better to focus on crash prevention measures.