1. San Diego
    Joined
    23 May '07
    Moves
    2124
    19 Jun '07 23:051 edit
    I notice that non-rated games count in players' won/lost records. I'd think that they should not show up. I might want to play some casual, non-rated games, perhaps against friends or family, or perhaps against opponents I might not normally play (e.g. very high- or low-rated players), or perhaps set-piece games. If I lose, I get a loss on my record for a game I wasn't very serious about. If I win, I might get an undeserved win on my record (someone playing casually against me because it's a non-rated game).

    I know it's not the end of the world, and I know my rating isn't affected, but it seems that non-rated games shouldn't count anywhere. There could be a separate record for non-rated wins and losses, but surely they should count in the "normal" won/lost record. It might tempt someone to create a second username in order to play experimental or completely non-serious games, but this goes against the user agreement.

    Has this topic come up for debate before? Your thoughts? Thanks.
  2. San Diego
    Joined
    23 May '07
    Moves
    2124
    20 Jun '07 06:09
    Originally posted by HolyT
    ... but surely they should count in the "normal" won/lost record....
    I meant, "...surely they should NOT count...."
  3. U.S.A.
    Joined
    19 Feb '05
    Moves
    3455
    20 Jun '07 06:335 edits
    Originally posted by HolyT
    I notice that non-rated games count in players' won/lost records. I'd think that they should not show up. I might want to play some casual, non-rated games, perhaps against friends or family, or perhaps against opponents I might not normally play (e.g. very high- or low-rated players), or perhaps set-piece games. If I lose, I get a loss on my record for a g e user agreement.

    Has this topic come up for debate before? Your thoughts? Thanks.
    yeah that's a good point. Like if you're playing a friend and trying to teach him how to mate with 2 bishops or a bishop/knight and you are intending to lose the game. I don't think games like that should count against you on your record. Most people might not care about their win/loss record though (i'm not too concerned with mine), maybe that's why it is the way it is. One way to avoid it though is you could always play your rated ones on this site and unrated ones on a different site? Try posting this thread in the "site ideas" forum also. Might get more attention for you there. Good luck! 🙂

    -- Paul

    p.s.
    here's the link to "site ideas" forum:

    http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/threadlist.php?forumid=20
  4. San Diego
    Joined
    23 May '07
    Moves
    2124
    21 Jun '07 04:37
    Thanks, Pavlo87. I submitted the same comments to the feedback section and got this response:
    "Dear HolyT,

    Thank you for your recent feedback.

    We understand you concern about this issue, but it is unlikely to be changed now as the current system has been in place for over 5 years and understood by all established players. We will consider adding alternative statistics possibly, for rated & unrated.

    Please let me know if I can help further,

    Regards,

    -Russ"
    I also notice that this thread has been moved to the "Site Ideas" forum. I'd appreciate any other help or campaigning that others can offer.
  5. Standard memberirontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    A Stapler!
    Joined
    26 Jun '06
    Moves
    59283
    21 Jun '07 16:43
    ya, i like it the way it is now..
  6. San Diego
    Joined
    23 May '07
    Moves
    2124
    21 Jun '07 17:142 edits
    Originally posted by Pavlo87
    Like if you're playing a friend and trying to teach him how to mate with 2 bishops or a bishop/knight and you are intending to lose the game.
    Pavlo87's best case example was this comment (quoted above).

    Look at the player tables. The #2 rated player has 0 losses on his record. That looks pretty impressive (and it is), and that player might even be motivated by that record, to play tight games and keep mistakes to a minimum, to preserve his perfect record (or he may not care about it at all--I wouldn't know). But that player will probably never play a non-rated game against a newer player in order to teach him something, like an opening, or a demonstration of a blunder, or how to mate in an endgame. So, that player will do one of three things, all of which are disadvantageous to this site and its players:
    1. Create a 2nd account, in violation of the site policies.
    2. NEVER use non-rated games for teaching purposes or other fun things like playing at a disadvantage.
    3. Go to another site to do those things.

    There is another strong player on this site who recently offered to play dozens of K-B-N vs. K endgames in order to teach others. What a great offer to teach others! He probably has tons of losses on his record because his helpfulness. If someone were to analyze his overall record without taking a lot of extra time to search through all of his games, move by move, that person would get an inaccurate picture of that player's strength. And isn't that one of the major purposes, if not the only significant purpose, of listing players' W-L-D records?
  7. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
    Joined
    27 Mar '03
    Moves
    17242
    21 Jun '07 17:54
    I used feedback when I first got to the site about this. I used to set up teaching boards for different things like mate with rook and other pieces... or mate in 3 things.

    I no longer do that because they still show up as a lost game. That was years ago when they answered my feedback saying "Good Point".

    P-
  8. Standard memberwittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    Cocoa Mountains
    Joined
    26 Nov '06
    Moves
    19249
    22 Jun '07 07:23
    Originally posted by HolyT
    I notice that non-rated games count in players' won/lost records. I'd think that they should not show up. I might want to play some casual, non-rated games, perhaps against friends or family, or perhaps against opponents I might not normally play (e.g. very high- or low-rated players), or perhaps set-piece games. If I lose, I get a loss on my record for a g ...[text shortened]... e user agreement.

    Has this topic come up for debate before? Your thoughts? Thanks.
    I agree completely. I could live with it either way, but I have played around 20 games with an 1800 player, some of which he lost intentionally (again, teaching me an endgame), most of which he won, and a few of which I actually won. Again, I'll be fine, but it would be nice.
  9. Standard memberRagnorak
    For RHP addons...
    tinyurl.com/yssp6g
    Joined
    16 Mar '04
    Moves
    15013
    23 Jun '07 16:331 edit
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    I used feedback when I first got to the site about this. I used to set up teaching boards for different things like mate with rook and other pieces... or mate in 3 things.

    I no longer do that because they still show up as a lost game. That was years ago when they answered my feedback saying "Good Point".

    P-
    Some good points presented here.

    It couldn't be that hard to add another few stats: Rated won/Lost/Drawn.

    Something like
    Games Played 483........Rated 432
    Won 342......................Won 300
    Lost 115.....................Lost 110
    Drawn 26.....................Drawn 22
    In Progress 26
    Moves 12844
    Moves This Month 70

    D
  10. Standard memberwittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    Cocoa Mountains
    Joined
    26 Nov '06
    Moves
    19249
    24 Jun '07 04:00
    Maybe we should request a vote for this to get some popularity going for it.

    After all, we haven't had a decent vote in forever.
  11. San Diego
    Joined
    23 May '07
    Moves
    2124
    25 Jun '07 03:25
    I'm in favor of submitting this to a vote, but it looks like, as a non-subscriber, I don't have any options to create a vote, unless I'm missing something. It should read something like this:

    Should the results of non-rated games count in players' won-lost-drawn records, or should they be listed separately?
    a. Include all rated and and non-rated games together in the W-L-D records (current system).
    b. Only include rated games in the W-L-D records. (The W-L-D record for non-rated games would either be listed separately or not listed at all.)

    Thanks!
  12. Standard memberirontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    A Stapler!
    Joined
    26 Jun '06
    Moves
    59283
    25 Jun '07 05:40
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Maybe we should request a vote for this to get some popularity going for it.

    After all, we haven't had a decent vote in forever.
    and theres something we can all agree on 😀
  13. San Diego
    Joined
    23 May '07
    Moves
    2124
    25 Jun '07 20:25
    We should also indicate that the change in the way the W-L-D record is listed would apply to both the player profiles and the player tables.
  14. Joined
    20 Jan '07
    Moves
    489453
    25 Jun '07 21:11
    It's a good idea to put this up for vote, the result would be interesting to see.
  15. Austin
    Joined
    22 Mar '07
    Moves
    2455
    04 Jul '07 16:19
    Can you set up a new id for non rate play?
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