1. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
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    92274
    27 Jan '09 00:004 edits
    In tournaments and clan leagues, if any of the players are banned for cheating, their name is crossed out, and their scores zero'ed out.

    However, there is no correction to the scores of their opposition. This means those who lose to cheats get zero, while those who still have games in progress with the cheat get wins by timeout.

    Instead, all points scored against cheats should be taken away once they get banned, so that nobody profits by having a cheat beat their opposition while they get free points from the banning.

    [Edit: "all points" means game points, not rating points. Re-rating tons of games is too much of a hassle.]

    Examples:
    Tournament 3116 - Alices Dad was robbed of many points by cheats
    http://www.chessatwork.com/clanleague/viewgames.php?memberid=308457&leagueid=1&seasonid=11&cid=24568 - 6 lucky players got wins against banned cheat mgbal [at least one from a dead lost position] simply by continuing to play until the cheat got banned. The rest had to take losses/draws.
  2. Standard membermisterrigel
    Dosadi Survivor
    Chicago
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    24 Jul '07
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    27796
    27 Jan '09 00:04
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    In tournaments and clan leagues, if any of the players are banned for cheating, their name is crossed out, and their scores zero'ed out.

    However, there is no correction to the scores of their opposition. This means those who lose to cheats get zero, while those who still have games in progress with the cheat get wins by timeout.

    Instead, all points ...[text shortened]... on] simply by continuing to play until the cheat got banned. The rest had to take losses/draws.
    absolutely

    rec
  3. Standard memberGatecrasher
    Whale watching
    33°36'S 26°53'E
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    05 Feb '04
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    41150
    27 Jan '09 00:32
    Recced.
  4. e4
    Joined
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    27 Jan '09 01:06
    I recall ages I wanted the scores of cheats reversed so the victim
    got the grading points - it was deemed as being too much hassle.

    This one TOO makes sense. Rec'd
  5. SubscriberKingDavid403
    King David
    Planet Earth.
    Joined
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    138458
    27 Jan '09 01:101 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    In tournaments and clan leagues, if any of the players are banned for cheating, their name is crossed out, and their scores zero'ed out.

    However, there is no correction to the scores of their opposition. This means those who lose to cheats get zero, while those who still have games in progress with the cheat get wins by timeout.

    Instead, all points ] simply by continuing to play until the cheat got banned. The rest had to take losses/draws.
    Rec'd
  6. Standard memberRaven69
    Different
    42
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    7738
    27 Jan '09 01:12
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    In tournaments and clan leagues, if any of the players are banned for cheating, their name is crossed out, and their scores zero'ed out.

    However, there is no correction to the scores of their opposition. This means those who lose to cheats get zero, while those who still have games in progress with the cheat get wins by timeout.

    Instead, all points ...[text shortened]... ] simply by continuing to play until the cheat got banned. The rest had to take losses/draws.
    Definitely. A rec from me as well.
  7. Standard memberrandolph
    the walrus
    an English garden
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    15 Jan '08
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    32836
    27 Jan '09 01:45
    Originally posted by Gatecrasher
    Recced.
    See, this is why things don't get done in FIDE. The top players don't support reform because the system already rewards them. This place is much better.
  8. DonationQuirine
    Tovenaar
    Dieren
    Joined
    20 Apr '02
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    347015
    27 Jan '09 16:28
    recced
  9. Joined
    07 Jan '08
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    34575
    27 Jan '09 20:51
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    In tournaments and clan leagues, if any of the players are banned for cheating, their name is crossed out, and their scores zero'ed out.

    However, there is no correction to the scores of their opposition. This means those who lose to cheats get zero, while those who still have games in progress with the cheat get wins by timeout.

    Instead, all points ...[text shortened]... ] simply by continuing to play until the cheat got banned. The rest had to take losses/draws.
    Rec'd
  10. Fichtekränzi
    Joined
    28 Mar '07
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    19929
    27 Jan '09 22:14
    I don't agree.

    First, we are talking only about players banned for engine use.
    (Once I had a game against a player getting banned for using some disrespectful words )
    2nd, I don't think it would be a big deal to recalc the rating points.
    Here are about 5 million games, that can be recalced very quickly.

    How will you re-value a game against a banned player? The non banned wins? So the players, who lost against the engine are same rated as the good players, who achieved a draw or even won.
    But perhaps the best is, to completely ignore those games.
    Because if you recalc the rating ponts, the banned player will quickly fall down from 1200 to nearly zero. So an old game will value more than a new one.

    And be aware, you will just increase justice, you will not get complete equity. For example, if an afterwards banned player progresses to the 2nd round of a tournament, the 2nd placed player of the first round is not redressed. Perhaps this 2nd placed player could have won the 2nd round!
  11. SubscriberVery Rusty
    Treat Everyone Equal
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Joined
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    413950
    27 Jan '09 22:39
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    In tournaments and clan leagues, if any of the players are banned for cheating, their name is crossed out, and their scores zero'ed out.

    However, there is no correction to the scores of their opposition. This means those who lose to cheats get zero, while those who still have games in progress with the cheat get wins by timeout.

    Instead, all points ...[text shortened]... ] simply by continuing to play until the cheat got banned. The rest had to take losses/draws.
    Agreed! Rec'd
  12. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
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    92274
    27 Jan '09 23:26
    Originally posted by afx
    I don't agree.

    First, we are talking only about players banned for engine use.
    (Once I had a game against a player getting banned for using some disrespectful words )
    2nd, I don't think it would be a big deal to recalc the rating points.
    Here are about 5 million games, that can be recalced very quickly.

    How will you re-value a game against a banned play ...[text shortened]... the first round is not redressed. Perhaps this 2nd placed player could have won the 2nd round!
    I'm not so sure we actually disagree on anything.

    The proposal should apply regardless of the reason for banning; it does not advocate changing the rating calculations in any way; it only applies to game-points scored in events [or the rounds of events] that are still active. There is no intent to re-write history, but only to fix things in the present.

    Obviously, in an event that goes several rounds, it would be impractical to restore all the players vanquished by the cheat. But at least he can be stopped from further affecting the results of the tournament once he is banned.
  13. THORNINYOURSIDE
    Joined
    04 Sep '04
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    245624
    28 Jan '09 02:36
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    In tournaments and clan leagues, if any of the players are banned for cheating, their name is crossed out, and their scores zero'ed out.

    However, there is no correction to the scores of their opposition. This means those who lose to cheats get zero, while those who still have games in progress with the cheat get wins by timeout.

    Instead, all points ...[text shortened]... ] simply by continuing to play until the cheat got banned. The rest had to take losses/draws.
    What about those who managed to genuinely win against the "cheat"?

    Do they keep the winning games in the league/tourney or lose them?

    If they lose the already won games they could effectively lose out on progressing due to other match results.
  14. Standard memberrandolph
    the walrus
    an English garden
    Joined
    15 Jan '08
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    32836
    28 Jan '09 02:511 edit
    Originally posted by adramforall
    What about those who managed to genuinely win against the "cheat"?

    Do they keep the winning games in the league/tourney or lose them?

    If they lose the already won games they could effectively lose out on progressing due to other match results.
    Yes, they could, but anybody that beats a cheat is likely to advance anyway. Yes, there are those occasional games that cheats throw to keep their stats inconspicuous by dropping a queen or such early on, but I think that those will not make much of a difference.
  15. Standard memberCrowley
    Not Aleister
    Control room
    Joined
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    91690
    28 Jan '09 05:47
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I recall ages I wanted the scores of cheats reversed so the victim
    got the grading points - it was deemed as being too much hassle.
    Because it would be a programming nightmare.
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