Originally posted by GiannottiAnd I welcome and value your opinion and thoughts.
Your proposal is very well thought and playable, I offer no criticism at all
It takes all of the current problems into account
I'm fairly new to clan leadership, and I don't have your insight or experience
My approach to the problem is overly simple, easy to program, and (hopefully) difficult to manipulate
Better than some who are trying to shut down the debate.
Especially when Russ has encouraged the debate.
- Joined
- 17 Jun 08
- Moves
- 179883
Originally posted by padgerLet's say there's a challenge with 10 games
Yes
We need this one to keep a bit of sanity to the whole proceedings and get rid of this ELO idea
I still think it should be 2 points per game for a win
1 point for a draw
0 points for a loss
Clan X wins 6, Clan Y wins 4
Do we award 20 points to X and 0 to Y
(winner takes all, gross/net stays in place)
Or do we award 12 points to X and 8 points to Y
(you win what you win, no gross/net)
Regarding a clan rating, it was a noble effort, but I don't think it's working
The current rating system is similar to ELO, and it's not bad
It may not be possible, but I'm in favor of dropping the clan rating and creating a seperate clan rating for every player, based on ELO or the current rating system
Originally posted by GiannottiThe issue is not whether or not we use an ELO rating system.
Let's say there's a challenge with 10 games
Clan X wins 6, Clan Y wins 4
Do we award 20 points to X and 0 to Y
(winner takes all, gross/net stays in place)
Or do we award 12 points to X and 8 points to Y
(you win what you win, no gross/net)
Regarding a clan rating, it was a noble effort, but I don't think it's working
The current rat ...[text shortened]... and creating a seperate clan rating for every player, based on ELO or the current rating system
I compared the ELO formula to the formula Russ uses.
It's in the FAQ's.
The 2 formulas are virtually identical.
The formula in the FAQ may even be ELO or a variation thereof.
The issue is assigning a rating at a clan level and upending a scoring system that could just have been fixed or improved.
The first main step was to decouple a player's rating for clan games from the site rating.
Then I suggested that we modify a constant K to shrink the rating variation. One game shouldn't increase or decrease a rating by 16 points for 1 game between 2 equally rated players.
I suggested a point swing of 4 points which is reasonable.
I then suggested that the rating swing be the basis of the new scoring system. For every game in the challenge.
This pretty much solves the sandbagging accusations.
Then I suggested a couple of other tweaks that solve other concerns about results after a challenge is decided.
I also put out a prize for the challenge itself.
With a bigger pot for bigger challenges.
Sensible, I think.
We have some parrot running around the thread squawking ELO ELO ELO !!
This has nothing to do with ELO.
It has to do with the use of a clan rating that has nothing to do with fair challenges.
And has more to do with penalizing a clan with higher ratings.
I am still waiting for Russ to respond to my question about 2 clans with unequal clan rating setting a balanced challenge between themselves.
What clan leader in their right mind would set a challenge where they could gain, for the sake of arguments, 5 rating points for winning and lose 30 rating points for losing the same challenge when the odds of winning are 50% for both clans.
Metallica currently has 17 challenges in PENDING status against various clans.
I predict that my clan leader will withdraw most of them under the new scoring regime.
That's the question I am waiting for Russ to answer !!
Originally posted by mghrn55your clan leader has increased his number of challenges
The issue is not whether or not we use an ELO rating system.
I compared the ELO formula to the formula Russ uses.
It's in the FAQ's.
The 2 formulas are virtually identical.
The formula in the FAQ may even be ELO or a variation thereof.
The issue is assigning a rating at a clan level and upending a scoring system that could just have been fixed or i ...[text shortened]... of them under the new scoring regime.
That's the question I am waiting for Russ to answer !!
this new scoring system will be exploited just like any other
shorty will survive
don't worry your little heart out
Originally posted by lemondropI know my clan leader will adapt.
your clan leader has increased his number of challenges
this new scoring system will be exploited just like any other
shorty will survive
don't worry your little heart out
We still think the new system is flawed.
We are trying to improve the system just like everyone else.
This isn't about our clan !!
Are you trying to tell us it is ??
We already know Carrobie makes everything about Metallica !!
And he will continue to whine about Metallica when the new system is in place.
How about you ??
Are you going to make it about Metallica ??
Hmmm ???
Originally posted by mghrn55I'll have to wait and see
I know my clan leader will adapt.
We still think the new system is flawed.
We are trying to improve the system just like everyone else.
This isn't about our clan !!
Are you trying to tell us it is ??
We already know Carrobie makes everything about Metallica !!
And he will continue to whine about Metallica when the new system is in place.
How about you ??
Are you going to make it about Metallica ??
Hmmm ???
I no longer have issues
I don't care anymore
edit:
but,
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWow.....all this talk about improving the system, but still focused on the Fact you and your clan are champions for 2016. That is a done issue. All done, in the history books.
lol I must be in some kinda crybaby festival man! 😵
All this complaining over an issue that has been decided. It's over. Easy Riders are the champs. End of story.
Time to wipe the tears and focus on the here and now. Something that is fair to everyone. As best as Russ can. Then everyone moves on from there. The only way to see how it works, is to try the plan Russ has, and see how it goes this year.
Robbie do you like the changes so far?
Originally posted by VESPINHow is that Robbie ?
Wow.....all this talk about improving the system, but still focused on the Fact you and your clan are champions for 2016. That is a done issue. All done, in the history books.
All this complaining over an issue that has been decided. It's over. Easy Riders are the champs. End of story.
Time to wipe the tears and focus on the here and now. Something t ...[text shortened]... try the plan Russ has, and see how it goes this year.
Robbie do you like the changes so far?
Is that what you wanted me to put ?
Can I do anything else for you Robbie ?
Originally posted by VESPINHe wants you to draw his bath and and give him a rub down.
Wow.....all this talk about improving the system, but still focused on the Fact you and your clan are champions for 2016. That is a done issue. All done, in the history books.
All this complaining over an issue that has been decided. It's over. Easy Riders are the champs. End of story.
Time to wipe the tears and focus on the here and now. Something t ...[text shortened]... try the plan Russ has, and see how it goes this year.
Robbie do you like the changes so far?
Oh, and don't forget his rubber ducky!!