1. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    27 Jun '07 16:14
    Get rid of it.

    How many people here voted for the system, and now regret it? When the topic first came up a long time ago, there were two solutions proposed.

    Time Bank

    OR

    36 days a year Vacation.

    Next, and I don't know why... RHP decided to put it to a vote and 36 days vacation was the clear winner.

    Now with both Time Bank and Vacation Time there are a lot of people complaining. I'd really like to know how many users regret voting for the vacation system now that they see it in action.

    There was no way to abuse the Time Bank system, there were few complaints, but now it seems several users are complaining about Vacation System.

    I'd like to see another vote if there are users who voted one way and now regret their vote. If there is no one who changed their mind, than we live with Vacation System.

    P-
  2. Joined
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    27 Jun '07 16:22
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    Get rid of it.




    P-
    Good idea.

    rec'd.
  3. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    27 Jun '07 16:38
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    Good idea.

    rec'd.
    I think the key is IF there are users who regret their original vote.

    If no one changed their mind, the system will have to do. I believe it won by a large margin.

    P-
  4. Standard memberleisurelysloth
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    27 Jun '07 17:03
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    Get rid of it.

    How many people here voted for the system, and now regret it? When the topic first came up a long time ago, there were two solutions proposed.

    Time Bank

    OR

    36 days a year Vacation.

    Next, and I don't know why... RHP decided to put it to a vote and 36 days vacation was the clear winner.

    Now with both Time Bank and Vacation ...[text shortened]... ir vote. If there is no one who changed their mind, than we live with Vacation System.

    P-
    Excellent idea. Perhaps we could replace the current system with (as a user selectable game option) Gatecrasher's timebank regeneration idea.
  5. Standard memberleisurelysloth
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    27 Jun '07 17:04
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    rec'd.
    Let me get that for you!
  6. Standard memberRagnorak
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    27 Jun '07 17:37
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    There was no way to abuse the Time Bank system, there were few complaints, but now it seems several users are complaining about Vacation System.
    The vote was put up by admin due to the number of people complaining via feedback that they had been timed-out while they were flying their vacation flag, so it's untrue to say that there were few complaints.

    I think there's a big misconception about the vacation system, purely because most people on here probably haven't used it yet. It isn't presently timebank + vacation allowance, because timebank runs down while your vacation allowance runs down.

    D
  7. Joined
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    27 Jun '07 17:45
    My conception (?) is that the vacation system is merely a immunity system during vacation. No one can be timed out when his vacation flag is up. However, he can play his game as usual during his vacation.

    If this is not a misconception then I don't like the vacation system. Some says it can be abused, some says it can't be abused. I think it depends of the definition of the very word 'abuse'.

    There must be a better way to handle vacations...
  8. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    27 Jun '07 18:16
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    The vote was put up by admin due to the number of people complaining via feedback that they had been timed-out while they were flying their vacation flag, so it's untrue to say that there were few complaints.

    I think there's a big misconception about the vacation system, purely because most people on here probably haven't used it yet. It isn't presently ...[text shortened]... vacation allowance, because timebank runs down while your vacation allowance runs down.

    D
    When I talked about complaints, I was referring to Time Bank. I always thought people who made games should always figure in a bit of time bank in case they needed to leave for a week or 2.

    The vacation flag (in my mind) was just a nice way of telling people you were off the site for a bit, and let them know when you might be back.

    Time bank should have covered any missing time, not a picture of a damn airplane on a yellow street sign!

    P-
  9. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    27 Jun '07 18:19
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    My conception (?) is that the vacation system is merely a immunity system during vacation. No one can be timed out when his vacation flag is up. However, he can play his game as usual during his vacation.

    If this is not a misconception then I don't like the vacation system. Some says it can be abused, some says it can't be abused. I think it depends of ...[text shortened]... he definition of the very word 'abuse'.

    There must be a better way to handle vacations...
    The solution was there all the time. Time Bank.

    The reason we HAVE time bank was for vacationing. The admins picked Time Bank OVER a 36 day vacation period.

    Now we have both because users don't know how to give themselves enough "just in case" time using the Time Bank. They want fast play, but next complain that they can't slack off in a game.

    P-
  10. Standard memberwittywonka
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    27 Jun '07 18:29
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    My conception (?) is that the vacation system is merely a immunity system during vacation. No one can be timed out when his vacation flag is up. However, he can play his game as usual during his vacation.

    If this is not a misconception then I don't like the vacation system. Some says it can be abused, some says it can't be abused. I think it depends of ...[text shortened]... he definition of the very word 'abuse'.

    There must be a better way to handle vacations...
    Originally posted by FabianFnas

    ...the vacation system is merely a immunity system during vacation. No one can be timed out when his vacation flag is up. However, he can play his game as usual during his vacation.

    That's exactly right; why then is this a bad system? If their timebank is still depleting, how is it subject to abuse? If they choose to let their timebank deplete while still enjoying their vacation, that's their choice.

    I'm not just picking on you; I'm just tired of seeing all of these complaints. Not to mention the fact that Russ has explicitly stated that he won't change it back.
  11. Standard memberRagnorak
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    27 Jun '07 18:30
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    Now we have both because users don't know how to give themselves enough "just in case" time using the Time Bank. They want fast play, but next complain that they can't slack off in a game.

    P-
    This is also a problem with Gatecrasher's proposed system. People are idiots! I can just imagine the flood of feedback headed admin's way when people spot that their opponent has more timebank than them and that their opponents timebank is increasing.

    D
  12. Standard memberleisurelysloth
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    27 Jun '07 18:34
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    How many people here voted for the system, and now regret it? ....
    Hmmm. The vote is still open. I guess if people don't like it, they could still change their vote. Perhaps we should have a site-wide PM (spam) asking people how they like the vacation system and if they would like to change their vote.
  13. Standard memberleisurelysloth
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    27 Jun '07 18:36
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    This is also a problem with Gatecrasher's proposed system. People are idiots! I can just imagine the flood of feedback headed admin's way when people spot that their opponent has more timebank than them and that their opponents timebank is increasing.

    D
    [sarcasm] I'm sure FAQ would prevent that. [/sarcasm]
  14. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    27 Jun '07 18:58
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    This is also a problem with Gatecrasher's proposed system. People are idiots! I can just imagine the flood of feedback headed admin's way when people spot that their opponent has more timebank than them and that their opponents timebank is increasing.

    D
    As Jim Rome (sports radio host) says, "I TAKE a lot of vacation, because I GET a lot of vacation".

    P-
  15. Joined
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    27 Jun '07 19:091 edit
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    Get rid of it.

    How many people here voted for the system, and now regret it? When the topic first came up a long time ago, there were two solutions proposed.

    Time Bank

    OR

    36 days a year Vacation.

    Next, and I don't know why... RHP decided to put it to a vote and 36 days vacation was the clear winner.

    Now with both Time Bank and Vacation ir vote. If there is no one who changed their mind, than we live with Vacation System.

    P-
    I voted for the Vacation / Immunity from Time-out System and I still support it. It seems that the people who are complaining are the same people who were against it in the first place.

    The vote is still open, so anyone who has voted can change their vote. A few months ago the 'yes' vote was around 1400, but that's now grown to 1538. The 'no' vote is 679 which is about the same as before. So maybe some who were against the vacation system are now in favour of it?

    Phlabibit said that the proposal was for "36 days a year Vacation". That's not true. The actual wording of the question was 'Would you be happy if players were immune from timeout while on vacation for a limited period (e.g. 4 weeks per year)?'

    Earlier a figure of about 3 weeks was suggested by the site admin. It would have been better if everyone had been given the opportunity to vote on the number of days allowed. I would have voted for a much lower figure than 36 days.

    There definitely is confusion about what the Vacation system is for and whether it can be abused. Too many people have latched onto the word 'vacation' but have missed the point of 'time-out immunity'. The wording could be changed, but I'm not sure that would do anything to lessen the confusion. When someone joins the site, one of their first questions is often "how does the site deal with vacations?" It's much easier to point them to the 'Vacation System' than to a 'Time-out Immunity System' or 'Timebank Extender' or whatever else it is renamed, and explain that it’s really to do with vacations.

    A lot of people seem to be getting upset because their opponents are moving whilst on ‘vacation’ and regard this as abusing the Vacation System. Various suggestions have been put forward to deal with this. But why should this be a problem? Most players are pleased to see their opponents make a move. If someone is using up their vacation allowance but moving anyway, then that’s great. The game will be speeded up. The only players who are disappointed to see their opponents moving are those who are hoping for a cheap time-out victory. The same kind of players who used to boast in their profiles that they would claim time-outs in any circumstances and never honoured the old vacation flags. But now that the vacation system actually prevents time-outs, they are mad as hell.

    The Vacation System hasn’t been in place for very long, so I think it’s too early to make drastic changes to it. It certainly shouldn’t be scrapped. An overwhelming majority voted in favour of it and it doesn’t seem likely that too many will have changed their minds. But it will be interesting to see what others think.
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