!!RHP Clans Cup!!

Eureka!!

Why don't we have a Clan cup tournament similar to the RHP championship?

Same time controls as the RHP championship, 0/40 spread over three rounds to make the tournament finish within a year. Teams of 6, group sizes depend on the amount of Clans entered (a minimum of 8 for obvious reasons). As there are far less Clans than there are number of players on the site, the group sizes would probably only comprise 3 or 4 Clans in the first round (the number being decided by number of entrants). Winner(s) of each group progress.

The results of the games should be counted as Clan vs Clan. So if Clan A score 3 wins and a draw against Team B's 2 wins and a draw, Team A Scores 1 match point. This is in contrast to the leagues where overall board score is used to determine the winner. This would make the tournament have a slightly different edge.

This would surely be quite easy to implement (though perhaps a little hard to place. Maybe make it an addition to the League pages...?)

We could even introduce a plate competition where the second placed team from each group in the first round progress to compete for the runners up cup (it would make it interesting for lower graded clans and encourage them to enter in the first place...). 🙂

What do you think? This would be awesome!! I don't think it would conflict with the Site championship as players would be receiving 6-8 games which wouldn't be outrageous... 😀

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Eureka!!

Why don't we have a Clan cup tournament similar to the RHP championship?

Same time controls as the RHP championship, 0/40 spread over three rounds to make the tournament finish within a year. Teams of 6, group sizes depend on the amount of Clans entered (a minimum of 8 for obvious reasons). As there are far less Clans than there are number ...[text shortened]... Site championship as players would be receiving 6-8 games which wouldn't be outrageous... 😀

Great idea - recc'd!

It could even start in June/July instead of January, most people are out of the RHP Championship by then anyway :'(

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Eureka!!

Why don't we have a Clan cup tournament similar to the RHP championship?

Same time controls as the RHP championship, 0/40 spread over three rounds to make the tournament finish within a year. Teams of 6, group sizes depend on the amount of Clans entered (a minimum of 8 for obvious reasons). As there are far less Clans than there are number Site championship as players would be receiving 6-8 games which wouldn't be outrageous... 😀

I like this idea, but I do have my own thoughts too.

I would like to see a Clan Challenge Duel Tournament instead. I thought that it could work like this:

Clans enter a team - lets say 6 people: 3 rated under 1400, 2 rated 1400-1700 and 1 rated 1700+ (for example) - or you could have a total sum of ratings not exeeding 9000 (eg 1300x3, 1600x2 and 1900x1). This will regulate the tournament and make it more even.
When the tourney starts, clans are matched into pairs and play a regular clan challenge (with the members paired up according to rating). This then follows the Duel Tournament template. Once all challenges in the first round have been completed, then the second round can start etc.

Winning clan gets a trophy or banner on their clan page.

By "banding" the respective boards it will make this competition less of a brute force competition and encourage smaller clans to play. In this version, members only get 2 games at a time and so it will be a great way of encouraging clan loyalty with minimum of game loads.

😀

Originally posted by Hindstein
I like this idea, but I do have my own thoughts too.

I would like to see a [b]Clan Challenge Duel Tournament instead. I thought that it could work like this:

Clans enter a team - lets say 6 people: 3 rated under 1400, 2 rated 1400-1700 and 1 rated 1700+ (for example) - or you could have a total sum of ratings not exeeding 9000 (eg 1300x3, 1600x2 ...[text shortened]... me and so it will be a great way of encouraging clan loyalty with minimum of game loads.

😀[/b]

It wouldn't work. As soon as you set criteria like banded boards the whole thing falls apart. It's hard enough to muster a league team for most clans, let alone having to have players in specific bands. Not to mention the logistics of checking everyone is correctly rated for their board, etc...

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
It wouldn't work. As soon as you set criteria like banded boards the whole thing falls apart. It's hard enough to muster a league team for most clans, let alone having to have players in specific bands. Not to mention the logistics of checking everyone is correctly rated for their board, etc...

Hmmm, I would have thought that it is something that could easily be automated - especially entering a team under a maximum total rating. A simple error saying that your submitted team is not within the rating limits should suffice.

What would also help would be to reduce the lead time for the start of the tourney. That would be easy to sort out too - just a PM saying that the RHP cup will be taking teams from 1st - 7th June, then start the tourney on the 8th. This avoids/or at least diminishes the chance of wildly fluctuating ratings and also gets the tourney going whilst interest is high.

Originally posted by Hindstein
Hmmm, I would have thought that it is something that could easily be automated - especially entering a team under a maximum total rating. A simple error saying that your submitted team is not within the rating limits should suffice.

What would also help would be to reduce the lead time for the start of the tourney. That would be easy to sort out too - ...[text shortened]... he chance of wildly fluctuating ratings and also gets the tourney going whilst interest is high.

Firstly, why water down the tourney? Why would we want to stop clans fielding strong teams? Are we aiming for excellence or mediocrity?

Secondly, if you reduce the lead time for entrants, you inevitably reduce the number of entrants. Again, why would we want that? If a Clan fields a person who has just returned after losing 500 points off their rating, this measure won't stop them. The tourney would still start with a woefully under rated player.

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
why water down the tourney? Why would we want to stop clans fielding strong teams? Are we aiming for excellence or mediocrity?

Neither, we are aiming for equality. Who wants to play in a clan system that is heavily biased? I don't play many unbanded tournaments as I have enough difficulty beating people at my own level and so why should clan tournaments be unbanded too? This way we could have a tournament structure where you have a small element of control over the strength of the your opponents, unlike the leagues.

Besides, your scenario for sandbaggers has had a reasonable compromise in the rating floor for tournament entry that could easily be adopted here.

Originally posted by Hindstein
Neither, we are aiming for equality. Who wants to play in a clan system that is heavily biased? I don't play many unbanded tournaments as I have enough difficulty beating people at my own level and so why should clan tournaments be unbanded too? This way we could have a tournament structure where you have a small element of control over the strength of ...[text shortened]... asonable compromise in the rating floor for tournament entry that could easily be adopted here.

Oh please, your post depresses me immensely. How can a have a Clan cup competition and then stop clans from fielding strong teams? That makes no sense at all...

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Oh please, your post depresses me immensely. How can a have a Clan cup competition and then stop clans from fielding strong teams? That makes no sense at all...

Do banded tournaments depress you too?
Are the winners of these tournaments less valid because the championship didn't involve the strongest players on the site? No, of course not.

What's wrong with the idea of banded clan tournements. If we can have banded tournements then my idea can work just as easily. My idea utilises the current clan challenge system and just develops it into a tournament. I can't think of another way that this style of clan tournament can be implemented with out banding of some description.

Perhaps the problem is that you are spending too much time dissing my idea instead of looking at the fact that we are both arguing for a common good - that is the implementation of 1 or more clan competitions/tournaments. OK, my idea differs from yours, but there is no need to slag it off with flawed and badly thought out arguments.

You've talked before about your dislike for "overall board score" being the deciding factor in the clan leagues. Perhaps I misunderstand you but is this not to do with advantage clans get for putting stronger players on each board that is higher than all others - if board 1's rating is 200 points higher than all others then this gives the clan an advantage. If this is multiplied over all 6 boards then it becomes a very large advantage.

By banding the boards in a loose way this would goes some way to improve (but of course not eradicate) that problem.

Originally posted by Hindstein
Do banded tournaments depress you too?
Are the winners of these tournaments less valid because the championship didn't involve the strongest players on the site? No, of course not.

What's wrong with the idea of banded clan tournements. If we can have banded tournements then my idea can work just as easily. My idea utilises the current clan challen ...[text shortened]... loose way this would goes some way to improve (but of course not eradicate) that problem.

Look, the idea is to decide a site Champion. I did suggest that there be a plate competition for first round runners up. Like you said, there are already banded tournaments, so it's not like people can't find competition at their level. This tournament is designed to be the equivalent of the FA cup but for RHP. All teams, no matter what strength, compete on a level field and the best clan wins.

How is this different from winning a league? Except that it's a time control different from the leagues and you don't have to spend valuable seasons moving up to league 1 while trying to maintain your team?

Yes, zebano is right, I think leagues are good enough - actually, it is probably harder to win division 1 of clan leagues than a clan tournament - because first, you have to get to Division 1, which is tough, and then win it, which is tougher. And actually (unless my noviceness is mistaken) doesn't leagues apply both, Hindstein and Marin...'s idea - that is to say, leagues allow ratings to be even (division by division), like hindstein says, and then once you get in the top division, the BEST are playing each other, kinda like Marinakatomb says.

Originally posted by Ramned
Yes, zebano is right, I think leagues are good enough - actually, it is probably harder to win division 1 of clan leagues than a clan tournament - because first, you have to get to Division 1, which is tough, and then win it, which is tougher. And actually (unless my noviceness is mistaken) doesn't leagues apply both, Hindstein and Marin...'s idea - that is t ...[text shortened]... ce you get in the top division, the BEST are playing each other, kinda like Marinakatomb says.

It is different from the leagues as it is a knockout competition. A league season is an all play all, this is a three stage knock out competition. If a Clan forms a league team, they must get promoted 5 or 6 times before they play first division teams. This competition pits all clans against each other.

In UK football we have a similar competition which includes all teams in all divisions. It is prestigious because occasionally you get a strong team from a low division winning the cup. Back in the 80/90's Wimbledon won the cup against Liverpool FC, they were in the 4th division at the time. Don't you guys have anything like this in the US?

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
It is different from the leagues as it is a knockout competition. A league season is an all play all, this is a three stage knock out competition. If a Clan forms a league team, they must get promoted 5 or 6 times before they play first division teams. This competition pits all clans against each other.

In UK football we have a similar competition whi ...[text shortened]... , they were in the 4th division at the time. Don't you guys have anything like this in the US?

hmm, interesting system. In USA we have divisions, but they are not ranked or anything - they always have the same teams in it (4 teams / divison, 8 divisions) But they are not ranked - they are grouped teams based on location (ex - the NFC East - teams that live on our east coast).

We can judge teams based on their record here, not divisons.