1. Standard memberVirtue76
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    16 Apr '08 09:51
    I have noticed in banded tournaments recently that I am playing against people with ratings way higher than the Tournament entry rating.

    When I have checked the profile there seems to be a dramatic drop in ratings which suddenly picks up due to smashing useless chess players such as myself.

    I was wondering if there was anything that could be done about this or should I stop crying about it and just keep losing games to people I wouldn't normally play because they are way out of my league?
  2. SubscriberPonderableonline
    chemist
    Linkenheim
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    16 Apr '08 10:42
    Originally posted by Virtue76
    I have noticed in banded tournaments recently that I am playing against people with ratings way higher than the Tournament entry rating.

    When I have checked the profile there seems to be a dramatic drop in ratings which suddenly picks up due to smashing useless chess players such as myself.

    I was wondering if there was anything that could be done abou ...[text shortened]... ust keep losing games to people I wouldn't normally play because they are way out of my league?
    You are right in stating the problem, after all banded torunaments are intended to give us low rated players opponents in our range.

    Suggestions which have been brought forward against sandbagging:

    a) "rating floo" ,meaning that there is a lower end of tournament entry rating something like 100 point below the all time high (which would need to be recorded then).

    b) tournamnet moderators who throw out sandbaggers personally.

    And before somebody else points out that: It's obvious that people improve and thus if their rating climbs though the tournament games they can stay and take their victory. The problem are ONLY sandbaggers.
  3. Standard memberO Artem O
    ParTizan
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    16 Apr '08 10:47
    maby they should move it up to only 50 points?
  4. Standard memberVirtue76
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    16 Apr '08 10:54
    Im in a banded tournament at the moment with a 1200 limit and one guy was once rated over 1800!
  5. THORNINYOURSIDE
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    16 Apr '08 14:47
    Originally posted by Virtue76
    I have noticed in banded tournaments recently that I am playing against people with ratings way higher than the Tournament entry rating.

    When I have checked the profile there seems to be a dramatic drop in ratings which suddenly picks up due to smashing useless chess players such as myself.

    I was wondering if there was anything that could be done abou ...[text shortened]... ust keep losing games to people I wouldn't normally play because they are way out of my league?
    It happens all too often and despite many ideas it continues to happen.

    The only way I can see it stopping is as Ponderable says is a rating based on your site max, though I'd say maybe 200 below your overall site max.

    It would then stop a lot of the sandbagging.

    An 1800 rater for instance couldn't enter enter a tournament which had a lower entry limit below 1600.

    So while it may seem a bit unfair, they could enter a 1600-1650 tournament, but at the same time couldn't enter a 1550-1750.

    This is what makes the system so hard to sort out to everyones satisfaction - the anomalies that are inevitably thrown up.
  6. Standard memberVirtue76
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    16 Apr '08 15:22
    I think once you have hit a particular rating, regardless of how high or low it is you wont necessarily drop too far below that standard. Ok you may lose a few, get timed out, resign etc but you still have a certain skill and experience.

    If someone gets to 1700-1800 then doesnt play for a while, gets timed out, they are still too good to be in 1100-1200 banded tournaments.
  7. SubscriberVery Rusty
    Treat Everyone Equal
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    16 Apr '08 15:404 edits
    I believe "Sandbagging" is the exact same thing as cheating. As the person is lowering their rating with the intent of entering a tournament, that they know they can win.

    Unfortunately it so hard to prove this...But what they could do is this: If you have reached a certain rating point, you should not be allowed to go into tournaments rated below that.

    That would make it quite difficult for myself as I have been up to 1800, and my playing strength is probably more in the 1600' low 1700's , but I think it would be a way to end this "SANDBAGGING PROBLEM" !!

    P.S. I agree with the aforementioned statements in this thread.
  8. Amsterdam
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    16 Apr '08 20:18
    Originally posted by Ponderable
    b) tournamnet moderators who throw out sandbaggers personally.
    You state it's been brought forward earlier, didn't know that..

    But what a GOOD idea! Hope that's possible to implement!
  9. UK
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    16 Apr '08 23:27
    The problem is that if you base the entry rating on the all time max then it unfairly penalises LOADS of people who have had rating spikes in the past. This is in comparison to the VERY FEW people who actually sandbag. So for the sake of stopping 1 or 2 people you impose a blanket rule that affects many people. That's not a fair way to deal with things.

    I think that the current tourny entry rating system deals with most of the problem. I also think/know that it's very easy (at least at my level, dunno about higher) to fluctuate in rating by, say, 100 points in a relatively short time, which could perhaps make some people think sandbagging is happening when it's not.

    Maybe torunament mods are an answer, but surely that would slow down the torunament starting process, which has evolved into an automatic process that happens fairly quickly when a tourny is full? If you remove people after it's started then, well, that's just not fair because effectively you could be giving their opponents a free run into the next round.

    So all in all I think I'd have to say leave it as it is, and treat it as a learning experience if you get pounded by a sandbagger. (Yes, it's not fun, I agree.)
  10. Gold Coast
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    17 Apr '08 01:25
    Tournament ratings should not be based on an all time high because a rating may spike high for reasons other than good play, like a lot of timed out games in the players favour, or stalling lost games while accumulating wins. This is the same as it can go down for reasons other than bad play.
  11. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    17 Apr '08 14:19
    Originally posted by mrmist
    The problem is that if you base the entry rating on the all time max then it unfairly penalises LOADS of people who have had rating spikes in the past. This is in comparison to the VERY FEW people who actually sandbag. So for the sake of stopping 1 or 2 people you impose a blanket rule that affects many people. That's not a fair way to deal with things.
    ...[text shortened]... a learning experience if you get pounded by a sandbagger. (Yes, it's not fun, I agree.)
    So if I was to let my rating drop to say 1200 keep it there for the required 100 days, enter in one of your tournaments and win it, you would find this perfectly acceptable?
  12. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    17 Apr '08 14:411 edit
    Originally posted by Simon McMahon
    Tournament ratings should not be based on an all time high because a rating may spike high for reasons other than good play, like a lot of timed out games in the players favour, or stalling lost games while accumulating wins. This is the same as it can go down for reasons other than bad play.
    It doesn't have anything to do with the fact you been 1820? I have been at 1800 myself, but if it would stop the unsportsmanlike conduct of the Sandbaggers. I would completely agree that they take the highest mark a player has had. If it means that I would never win a tournament because of that 1800 spike I had from gameload, so be it!!
  13. Standard memberVirtue76
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    17 Apr '08 15:46
    You dont get to 1800 accidentally. you would have to timeout quite a few well ranked players for that to happen.
  14. Gold Coast
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    18 Apr '08 07:20
    Originally posted by Very Rusty
    It doesn't have anything to do with the fact you been 1820? I have been at 1800 myself, but if it would stop the unsportsmanlike conduct of the Sandbaggers. I would completely agree that they take the highest mark a player has had. If it means that I would never win a tournament because of that 1800 spike I had from gameload, so be it!!
    Having been to 1820 means I know ratings can spike high as well as low, by luck or good play. After getting past 1800 I got caned in every tourney I entered so it didn't last long :-). For me it is good to know that after 100 days I can enter more appropriate tourneys.
  15. Standard memberVirtue76
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    18 Apr '08 12:15
    Originally posted by Simon McMahon
    Having been to 1820 means I know ratings can spike high as well as low, by luck or good play. After getting past 1800 I got caned in every tourney I entered so it didn't last long :-). For me it is good to know that after 100 days I can enter more appropriate tourneys.
    Im sure you would agree that you would be too good for a 1100-1200 Tournament though?
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