I am going to mention ongoing games in my next blog after seeing the 50 move
rule being used in a recent David Howell game (very rare at top level chess).
Some lads here have played 80+ moves repeating positions till they
either agreed a draw or one of them discovered the 'claim draw' button.
In the real world an arbiter can step in and stop the game after 75
moves with no pawn move or a capture and declare it a draw.
I think Russ is going to make this so with the next update so no more marathon games.
Site Suggestion. (possibly already suggested elsewhere.)
Maybe make the 'claim draw' button 'flash' when it is an option as
it would appear players have missed it. see Thread 190968
where a draw has just now, finally, been claimed.
@greenpawn34 saidI am sympathetic to that in principle, but fear that some might see it as "outside help".
I am going to mention ongoing games in my next blog after seeing the 50 move
rule being used in a recent David Howell game (very rare at top level chess).
Some lads here have played 80+ moves repeating positions till they
either agreed a draw or one of them discovered the 'claim draw' button.
In the real world an arbiter can step in and stop the game after 75 ...[text shortened]... have missed it. see Thread 190968
where a draw has just now, finally, been claimed.
@greenpawn34 saidI can see one possible problem with your 'button flash' suggestion.
Site Suggestion. (possibly already suggested elsewhere.)
Maybe make the 'claim draw' button 'flash' when it is an option as
it would appear players have missed it. see Thread 190968
where a draw has just now, finally, been claimed.
The use of the 'claim draw' button must include making a valid move when clicking the claim draw button.
If the move you are about to make will satisfy the 'drawn game' condition but it has not actually been made, the drawn condition may not be there yet, but it will be just as soon as the drawing move is made.
So that button would not flash if the condition isn't already there.
Sort of an 'almost' catch-22. 🙂
(It's possible that a draw condition may already exist, such as 50 move rule, insufficiant material to checkmate, or three-fold repetition of position)
Am I confusing the issue?
The easy thing to do is to just go ahead and click the 'claim draw' button as part of your move if you think the game is drawn with your move. We can already do that now, but it isn't too obvious. When you do that, all of the 'drawn game conditions' are checked. If no draw condition is met the claim is ignored and the game goes on.
Maybe the simple solution is to just make that 'claim draw' button blink all of the time.
Hello Again,
It would appear from the posts and games I'm seeing the lads
are missing the draw button option. Maybe no flash, but something
to show they can claim a draw. Maybe on the 12th repetition. (see below)
I can see the point, as suggested, it can be deemed as offering outside help
but this site is frequented by a lot of home and casual players, the life blood.
If we can assist with a legality without actually telling them what to play then
I think we should assist. (though I really can see why some would disagree.)
I've came across more than just a few games like Game 12708762 which was
eventually claimed as a draw due to three fold rep. but they played on for
30 moves before one of them noticed they could claim a draw.
And games like this. Game 12752535Players going back and forth possibly
thinking the only way to get a draw is to take it to 50 moves with no pawn
moves or captures when they have repeated the position dozens of times.
This one Game 12138446 It appears both players are aware of the
50 move rule but perhaps think it's 50+50 because they repeated for over
100 moves before one claimed a draw. I hate to think of them ticking off the
moves till they were sure they could claim a draw. (of course they may have
been messing about - no problem with that.) but maybe something should
kick in to make less experienced players aware that they are way past
the conditions for a draw. (and if the players are messing about or testing
the system then they can deliberately ignore any hint given.)
It's just a thought. That is why we are discussing it.
It's not a massive problem, but I think if we can stop less experienced players
from wasting their time then maybe it should be considered.
more experienced players will see it coming and click the draw button.
Make the claim draw button bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger
every time a three fold rep goes unclaimed. 😀
@greenpawn34 saidI like that suggestion
Make the claim draw button bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger
every time a three fold rep goes unclaimed. 😀
The claiming of a draw is one of the most confusing aspects of chess and there are so many ways to invalidate it one example being the game in Geoff's blog where the queen moves in a triangular like pattern.
However, it is one of the basic laws of chess along with the 50 and 75 move so perhaps we should just leave it as it is.As far as I know,you can press "claim draw" as many times as you like so is it really such a problem?
The 50 move thing is a bit different as it would involve counting up to 50 ,something done by the referee in OTB.
In this scenario , perhaps a warning similar to the invalid move warning could be applied
Hi venda,
I'm sure that is first time I have ever used the blog (heading for No.400 soon)
to put a point of view across that I was discussing in a forum. I think that
would be unfair of me - especially if I was in one of blazing rows that sometimes
frequent this site. (often over nothing but a simple misunderstanding.)
But here I think I am being fair because I am not too bothered about either way
and the discussion is very cordial.
It's just an idea, a thought and perhaps some player reading the blog has
now picked up on the 50 move or three fold rule.
There is the official 75 move rule where an arbiter can legally stop the game
if the conditions for the 50 rule have been met at the 75th move.
(I know of a few experienced players did not know that. I've never seen it used.)
Maybe RHP could step in there. But as I said it's just a thought.
@venda
The half-moves are also counted here at RHP. The count is part of the FEN, which can be viewed at any time. On the game board page, go to the right side and drop down to the "PGN" button. You will be shown the game PGN and also the FEN.
If you go to the end of the FEN, the last two numbers are the current 'half-move' count since the last piece capture or pawn move, and the last number is the current game move number.
By using that you can see if there have been 50 half-moves made, in order to qualify for claiming a draw under the 50 move rule.
The FEN is explained in the FAQ.
@mwmiller saidYes.forgot about that as it's something I rarely,if ever, use
@venda
The half-moves are also counted here at RHP. The count is part of the FEN, which can be viewed at any time. On the game board page, go to the right side and drop down to the "PGN" button. You will be shown the game PGN and also the FEN.
If you go to the end of the FEN, the last two numbers are the current 'half-move' count since the last piece capture or pawn m ...[text shortened]... in order to qualify for claiming a draw under the 50 move rule.
The FEN is explained in the FAQ.