:)

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Of course there is a God. Haven't you read the bible?

The Bible is only to be believed if it was written, or inspired, by God; it's entire claim to authority rests on the premise that God is behind it. So, the Bible itself cannot be evidence for God's existence. If you're out to prove God exists, you can't start by assuming he does.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Its the hypocrisy and uncertainty of it all that bothers me not the message or the ideal. I'm all for having the security blanket of an all knowing God that fills the word with love, peace and understanding.

How many times have you gone to Church and passed a vagrant sleeping on the street? Have your ever read the Good Book only to violate it's m ...[text shortened]... consistant messages. Humanity's quest for spiritual truth should not be such a train wreck.

HOH before i go home...

1. several times
2. no
3.no
4.yes
5. money to the bum,cant stand ipod's
6.Salvation army where i go is in a hut...cost about £200

How do we salvage the train wreck that is the point!!!

Good points.... yes i will believe Aphrodite because its a good message...

Let me make sure I have you on record: you believe Aphrodite really exists in the same way you think the God of Bible really exists? Just because you like her message?

i keep hearing people say "prove to me God exists" well for a change someone prove to me he doesn't.... i would rather live my life believing and then die to find out im wrong than to live my life disbelieving then dying to find out im wrong... you get what i mean

I'll be the first to admit that no one can ever prove God doesn't exist. You can never prove a negative, and anyway no deity can ever be disproven. It wouldn't be hard for me to make up a God named Bugaboo Jones who really, really gets mad whenever you speed through yellow lights, and who'll punish you eternally in the afterlife if you do it. You can never prove that Bugaboo Jones doesn't exist. So does that mean it'd make sense to believe in him? Do you really want Bugaboo Jones sawing at your bones with his multi-toothed saber for all eternity?

If you make a positive claim - that God exists, and that I should behave as though he does - the burden of proof is on you. Otherwise you're obliged to believe any random claim anyone makes up.

Originally posted by darthmix
[b]Good points.... yes i will believe Aphrodite because its a good message...

Let me make sure I have you on record: you believe Aphrodite really exists in the same way you think the God of Bible really exists? Just because you like her message?

i keep hearing people say "prove to me God exists" well for a change someone prove to me he doesn't. ...[text shortened]... s on you. Otherwise you're obliged to believe any random claim anyone makes up.

Not explaining this well..... i like the story of Aphrodite because its nice...nothing else...i dont believe in her i just like the story... whereas After my own reading of the Bible and getting to know more about God the more i believed this to be true...my feelings you understand...i never push them on others...i will not tell you to believe....if you choose not to then fine thats up to you i wish you well....i believe in not pushing something into someones face once they have said they dont want to know...whats the point...they have put up a barrier and i would only be banging against it getting nowhere!!!!

You started this thread saying you didn't understand how atheists could reject God, since God's message was so good. I'm just trying to help you understand.

Originally posted by darthmix
You started this thread saying you didn't understand how atheists could reject God, since God's message was so good. I'm just trying to help you understand.

yyeesss.... and im trying to understand!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by amannion
It's too much to ask for me.
I'll stand with my head high in front of any god and proudly announce that they don't exist. Just point me in the right direction ...

It is just a matter of time, you'll get your chance.
Kelly

Originally posted by Jay Joos
What makes you think it is illusionary...im interested !!!

Also unless im missing something...you didn't really answer my question....

Easy. God does not exist, therefor if you see him somewhere, it must be an illusion.
Well, of course it's not as easy to explain as I did.
Let me elaborate a bit.
I don't believe anything to be true or real just because it's written or someone said so. Everything that does not make sense in my logic of the world (that was built during my life experience) and that is not coherent with what I learned is not assumed to be true. I believe this is quite reasonable.
The idea of an abstract God does not go against my vision of the world. Yet, this idea is futile. Simply not necessary to make everything work. By the contrary, creates more questions then answers.
THe idea of a God like the one in bible, coran, etc, goes DEEPLY against everything i know about the world and reality. The incongruences are so many I can't believe there are so many followers.
Yes, the message of the Bible is good, in general. Not believing in God or everything written in the Bible doesn't stop me from following its message.
You can't understand why people reject God. Because it goes against logic and what we see everyday. Because God is not necessary.
Jesus was about the message and the about way to live life. For you to believe in his message do you really need Jesus to be a God, or son of God, or whatever?

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]And this is exactly why people reject god. There isn't one ...

Of course there is a God. Haven't you read the bible? The reason people deny God exists is because they'd rather not feel guilty about all the bad things they've done. If the God of the bible exists, then they'd have to either accept the conditions of His forgiveness or be judged ...[text shortened]... and self-denial really that much to ask for eternal life? Only you can decide that.[/b]

You believe there's a God because it's in the Bible? I don't know if you are just making a joke or if it's serious.
You are wrong , it's nothing about guilt.
But there it is: the reason why there are so many religious folks: fear. If you don't believe you'll go to hell. If you do, and behave, there's going to be an eternal time in paradise. So why shouldn't you believe? There's nothing to loose. Ridiculous.
What do you think it's better? To be honest to one's ideals and logic, all the time, of to submit to all that crap for fear of a "day of judgement". If I am wrong and afterall there would be a God, I would tell him "I always was honest with myself and others, do you prefer to receive someone that follows its principles, or a blind sheep that only follows the other blind sheeps? Why would you need all this worshiping, is it an ego? I don't need a God with an ego"
Let me tell you all. Think by yourselves. Auto-criticize. Admit you can be wrong. DON'T BE AFRAID. Nothing bad will happen to you if you are honest to your thoughts. But you can loose a lot of time worshiping around some egocentric man-made myth.

Originally posted by Jay Joos
HOH before i go home...

1. several times
2. no
3.no
4.yes
5. money to the bum,cant stand ipod's
6.Salvation army where i go is in a hut...cost about £200

How do we salvage the train wreck that is the point!!!

You're better than most then. Still, I hope you can appreciate the irony of a Church, any Church, holding services in a $3 million building while not having enough funds to address a program to feed the poor. As a further irony, the US government pays out $77 million per month to those that are classed as 'disabled' for being too fat. Finally, what does it say about a society who's media will run a dramatically produced series about a fluffy cat that fell down a well and totally ignore various genocides if third world countries?

The Hand's policy from here on out, take care of myself and family, try to find spiritual peace and screw everyone else. This seems to be how everyone else is doing it.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
You're better than most then. Still, I hope you can appreciate the irony of a Church, any Church, holding services in a $3 million building while not having enough funds to address a program to feed the poor. As a further irony, the US government pays out $77 million per month to those that are classed as 'disabled' for being too fat. Finally, what ...[text shortened]... d spiritual peace and screw everyone else. This seems to be how everyone else is doing it.

Yes i can understand and i appreciate the irony... were you not describing Catholic churches!!??

God bless...🙂

Originally posted by serigado
You believe there's a God because it's in the Bible? I don't know if you are just making a joke or if it's serious.
You are wrong , it's nothing about guilt.
But there it is: the reason why there are so many religious folks: fear. If you don't believe you'll go to hell. If you do, and behave, there's going to be an eternal time in paradise. So why shoul ...[text shortened]... t you can loose a lot of time worshiping around some egocentric man-made myth.

I appreciate your comments,thank you!!!

God bless....🙂

Originally posted by serigado
Yes, the message of the Bible is good, in general.

Is it really? I disagree. I think your interpretation of it might be good or the message in your selection of favorite verses might be good, but the overall message if there is one is definitely not good at all.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Is it really? I disagree. I think your interpretation of it might be good or the message in your selection of favorite verses might be good, but the overall message if there is one is definitely not good at all.

I cant agree with you no matter what....

Originally posted by Jay Joos
I cant agree with you no matter what....

Are you able to summarize what you believe to be 'the message'?