1. Hamelin: RAT-free
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    05 Oct '05 21:51
    Ok, let's take it a step at a time - my previous thread has become too much of a fruitsalad.

    In my search through evolution, the conclusion was reached time and again, that man is no more than a smart ape and is simply an incredibly complex bunch of bio-chemicals somehow working together in perfection.... To this, I drew the following conclusion: Man has no intrinsic value, besides being smarter than the rest of the animals.

    If intelligence (which I still haven't found sufficient evidence in evolution to merit origin by mere chance) is all that makes man have greater value than the rest of nature, what should we do with the senile and stupid? Why do we place value in friends beyond their capabilities and intelligence? Please, give me more, I need to know...

    In the world-view that a God created man, man has value and has rights because they are God-given. Man has value because he has a soul. Man has value beyond his intelligence, abilities and wit.
  2. Standard memberMoldy Crow
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    05 Oct '05 22:18
    Originally posted by RatX
    Ok, let's take it a step at a time - my previous thread has become too much of a fruitsalad.

    In my search through evolution, the conclusion was reached time and again, that man is no more than a smart ape and is simply an incredibly complex bunch of bio-chemicals somehow working together in perfection.... To this, I drew the following conclusion: Man has no ...[text shortened]... . Man has value because he has a soul. Man has value beyond his intelligence, abilities and wit.
    You are quite a confused little man , aren't you ? You continue to attempt to attach values and morals to that which does not necessarilly contain it , or is incapable of having them . You ask questions like , "Of what purpose is the sky ?" Simply because something exists does not mean it must have higher purpose .

    You're also fond of stating opinions and unproven assertions as if they were fact . In fact you don't just state one , you pile them one upon the other like flapjacks .

    You're just not very bright .

    And by the way , you have still not answered my first rebutal of your post in the "fruitsalad"thread . Care to answer it directly over there ? You just kind of started up with some name calling and slid into something else entirely .
  3. Joined
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    06 Oct '05 00:29
    Originally posted by RatX
    Ok, let's take it a step at a time - my previous thread has become too much of a fruitsalad.

    In my search through evolution, the conclusion was reached time and again, that man is no more than a smart ape and is simply an incredibly complex bunch of bio-chemicals somehow working together in perfection.... To this, I drew the following conclusion: Man has no ...[text shortened]... . Man has value because he has a soul. Man has value beyond his intelligence, abilities and wit.
    I'd say that approaching things like self-worth and higher purpose from a scientific point of view is not a good idea. I agree that science speaks of cold and heartless laws governing pointless chemicals, fields and the like. Not to mention, the utter insignificance of man on the astronomical scale. A reason for this lack of humanity in the sciences is due to its very nature. Science is objective, systematic, and empiricle. As a result, science does not provide the answers to value-based questions like those you are asking. Science provides a functional model of the material world; it does not tells us the 'why's'.
  4. Standard memberRemoved
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    06 Oct '05 00:59
    Originally posted by Canadaguy
    I absolutely agree with you. Intellegence seems to me to be an evolutionary by-product. It by no means makes us better than animals. It just gives us to POTENTIAL for better things. Alas, it seems we'd rather root in our own sh*t then better ourselves.
    Well I'll be a monkeys uncle!!!!!😉
  5. Standard memberUmbrageOfSnow
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    06 Oct '05 01:16
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Well I'll be a monkeys uncle!!!!!😉
    I didn't know you were related to checkmate!
  6. Joined
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    06 Oct '05 01:16
    Originally posted by RatX
    Ok, let's take it a step at a time - my previous thread has become too much of a fruitsalad.

    In my search through evolution, the conclusion was reached time and again, that man is no more than a smart ape and is simply an incredibly complex bunch of bio-chemicals somehow working together in perfection.... To this, I drew the following conclusion: Man has no ...[text shortened]... . Man has value because he has a soul. Man has value beyond his intelligence, abilities and wit.
    Dophins are more 'intelligent' than lions. Lions are more 'intelligent' than racoons. Racoons are more intelligent than crickets. Crickets are more 'intelligent' than bacteria. Humans appear to be at the top of this tree.

    We are not necessarily in a priveleged postion other than those priveleges that come with being the most 'intelligent'. You appear to be giving our relative intelligence more significance than it deserves. Nature is full of variation - one of the animals has to be at the top of the tree, the fact it is us isn't anything to ponder necessarily. Look up the Anthropic Principle.
  7. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
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    06 Oct '05 02:00
    Originally posted by RatX
    In the world-view that a God created man, man has value and has rights because they are God-given.
    Why does god give man rights? Whatever gave him that idea?
  8. Calgary
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    06 Oct '05 03:37
    Originally posted by Pullhard
    Dophins are more 'intelligent' than lions. Lions are more 'intelligent' than racoons. Racoons are more intelligent than crickets. Crickets are more 'intelligent' than bacteria. Humans appear to be at the top of this tree.

    We are not necessarily in a priveleged postion other than those priveleges that come with being the most 'intelligent'. You ap ...[text shortened]... tree, the fact it is us isn't anything to ponder necessarily. Look up the Anthropic Principle.
    This type of intelligence is just a survival factor thats all. It serves no other purpose. Somehow during the same development humankinds brains developed in a way to do abstract thought. Thus creating the society we know enjoy. My issue with it is that nothing is being done with it. Man continues to act and behave like an animal, even though we have the tools, capability, and drive to be otherwise.
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    06 Oct '05 03:47
    Originally posted by Canadaguy
    This type of intelligence is just a survival factor thats all. It serves no other purpose. Somehow during the same development humankinds brains developed in a way to do abstract thought. Thus creating the society we know enjoy. My issue with it is that nothing is being done with it. Man continues to act and behave like an animal, even though we have the tools, capability, and drive to be otherwise.
    Are you saying chimps are not capable of abstract thought? How do you know dolphins do not indulge in abstract thought?
  10. Hamelin: RAT-free
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    06 Oct '05 07:21
    Originally posted by yousers
    I'd say that approaching things like self-worth and higher purpose from a scientific point of view is not a good idea. I agree that science speaks of cold and heartless laws governing pointless chemicals, fields and the like. Not to mention, the utter insignificance of man on the astronomical scale. A reason for this lack of humanity in the sciences is d ...[text shortened]... Science provides a functional model of the material world; it does not tells us the 'why's'.
    Very true, I thoroughly agree...

    But here is my point. If I am to accept evolution as my origin, it determines my entire worldview, being the basis by which I explain the state of the universe, our world, myself and my consciousness. If I am to believe that I came to be by mere chance and I am no more than chemicals, then I'll have to accept that all my emotions, feelings and psyche are the result of no more than a complex chemical reaction.

    It is true that Science is objective and cold - but it motivates certain conclusions about our existence and ultimately, values.
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    06 Oct '05 08:25
    Originally posted by RatX
    Ok, let's take it a step at a time - my previous thread has become too much of a fruitsalad.

    In my search through evolution, the conclusion was reached time and again, that man is no more than a smart ape and is simply an incredibly complex bunch of bio-chemicals somehow working together in perfection.... To this, I drew the following conclusion: Man has no ...[text shortened]... . Man has value because he has a soul. Man has value beyond his intelligence, abilities and wit.
    where's your proof that god exists rodent?
  12. Account suspended
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    06 Oct '05 08:42
    Originally posted by RatX
    Ok, let's take it a step at a time - my previous thread has become too much of a fruitsalad.

    In my search through evolution, the conclusion was reached time and again, that man is no more than a smart ape and is simply an incredibly complex bunch of bio-chemicals somehow working together in perfection.... To this, I drew the following conclusion: Man has no ...[text shortened]... . Man has value because he has a soul. Man has value beyond his intelligence, abilities and wit.
    Evolution is a theory! Not fact! Religion is also a theory and not fact! You prove god exists and i will be convinced! Good Luck! Until then stop with these meaningless little threads! Rodent
  13. Shetland Primary
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    06 Oct '05 09:11
    Originally posted by mattlango
    where's your proof that god exists rodent?
    For a moment consider the complexity of your eyes...

    Once you are done with that consider your personality, emotions etc.
  14. Shetland Primary
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    06 Oct '05 09:32
    Originally posted by mattlango
    Evolution is a theory! Not fact! Religion is also a theory and not fact! You prove god exists and i will be convinced! Good Luck! Until then stop with these meaningless little threads! Rodent
    No one is forcing you to take part in the forums.

    Besides, if these threads are so meaningless then why do you waste your time on them?
  15. Standard memberHalitose
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    06 Oct '05 10:201 edit
    Originally posted by mattlango
    Evolution is a theory! Not fact! Religion is also a theory and not fact! You prove god exists and i will be convinced! Good Luck! Until then stop with these meaningless little threads! Rodent
    To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and, whatever you hit, call it the target. ~Patrick Toche

    What you posted was tosh.
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