Originally posted by TheBloop
Even if one assumes that "someone made" God, I would still point out that we're not responsible to God's maker, only to our maker.

If a person stands before God and says "I didn't believe in you because I can regress beyond you to somebody that made you", God could always answer, "It doesn't make any difference if someone made me, the only thing that matters here is the fact that I made YOU".

What would that person then say?

That person should then say the following:

"The mere fact that you made me doesn't mean that I am yours to direct as you please, or that I am beholden to what you deem right or wrong. I am not your puppet, and I do not subscribe to your warped notions of rightness and wrongness. Although you have the power to punish me for what to you take to be my transgressions, if you punish me for acting in accord with the deliverances of my moral deliberations, then you are nothing more than a petty tyrant."

Originally posted by bbarr
That person should then say the following:

"The mere fact that you made me doesn't mean that I am yours to direct as you please, or that I am beholden to what you deem right or wrong. I am not your puppet, and I do not subscribe to your warped notions of rightness and wrongness. Although you have the power to punish me for what to you take to be my tran ...[text shortened]... ith the deliverances of my moral deliberations, then you are nothing more than a petty tyrant."

"Although you have the power to punish me for what to you take to be my transgressions, if you punish me for acting in accord with the deliverances of my moral deliberations, then you are nothing more than a petty tyrant."

Er ... can't a pedophile use this defence to argue against the State (not legally, but morally)?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
[b]"Although you have the power to punish me for what to you take to be my transgressions, if you punish me for acting in accord with the deliverances of my moral deliberations, then you are nothing more than a petty tyrant."

Er ... can't a pedophile use this defence to argue against the State (not legally, but morally)?[/b]

Sure, but then the question will concern the reasons that informed the pedophile's moral deliberations, and whether they were good ones. The debate will not be settled by the mere fact that the State is the State, just as the debate is not settled by the mere fact (if it is a fact) that we are created by God. The point, in short, is that God's having created us has no moral implications. Whether we are praiseworthy or blameworthy will depend on ethical considerations, not mere facts about our causal origin.

Originally posted by LemonJello
Of course some people could "consider" it science. But such consideration would not change the fact that ID is NOT science.

Also, I am glad to see you qualified the word "evidence" with "proposed" since there simply is no evidence in support of ID. There is merely a wealth of observations that happen to be compatible with the clai ...[text shortened]... f such a notion.

Do you think ID is any more "scientific" than Flying Spaghetti Monsterism?

But such consideration would not change the fact that ID is NOT science.

Why not if you apply the scientific method while searching for the finderprints of God, surely it could be considered "science". Your subject matter is definitely not mainstream, and you are definitely mixing it with religion, so it's not pure science, I'll willingly concede that, so how would this be disqualified?

Do you think ID is any more "scientific" than Flying Spaghetti Monsterism?

As Bbarr noted, they're Pastafarians and are totally welcome in the ID clan. 😛😛

I just wish they had some mystery tendril of pasta, or a giant meatball claiming to be the son of the great FSM to add more substance to their claims. 😲🙄🙄😏

Originally posted by aardvarkhome
oh puhleeeze

Hey, I need to be pedantic around Sonhouse.

We are having a private tiff and I can't allow him any elbow room to swing in... 😛😵

Originally posted by TheBloop
Even if one assumes that "someone made" God, I would still point out that we're not responsible to God's maker, only to our maker.

If a person stands before God and says "I didn't believe in you because I can regress beyond you to somebody that made you", God could always answer, "It doesn't make any difference if someone made me, the only thing that matters here is the fact that I made YOU".

What would that person then say?

How about "...hey, dig that crazy beard, man. Hang on, you're changing into a large, pink gorilla. Oh no! I'm covered in worms...

(some time later)

...whew, that was some trip, man."

Originally posted by ivangrice
How about "...hey, dig that crazy beard, man. Hang on, you're changing into a large, pink gorilla. Oh no! I'm covered in worms...

(some time later)

...whew, that was some trip, man."

Funny