@ Prayer.

Originally posted by Agerg
your (omniscient) god did no error checking; moreover because it is omniscient then it would have known which errors could have occured. There is no third party other than your god.

Yes, but that is an entirely different appendage that you are now seeking to introduce , now lets get this correct, programmers who invent programming languages are not responsible when someone missuses their language for the creation of malware and other nefarious purposes, but God is, because now he is omniscient.

Well then, being omniscient he would have introduced contingency plans to purge the malicious code from the system, would he not? Is that not what systems maintenance does as a matter of routine? therefore if it can be established that God, in his omniscient state, foresaw the malicious intent and made plans for the purging of the virus from the system, then he is now blameless? Is that not the case?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Yes, but that is an entirely different appendage that you are now seeking to introduce , now lets get this correct, programmers who invent programming languages are not responsible when someone missuses their language for the creation of malware and other nefarious purposes, but God is, because now he is omniscient.

Well then, being omniscient h ...[text shortened]... s for the purging of the virus from the system, then he is now blameless? Is that not the case?

Aha...so someone else helped create the universe and all that is within then? (a third party)

That was a rhetorical question btw; I suspect you notice the problem and are trying to pursuade me to adopt your tactic of needless obfuscation so to attain cognitive dissonance. I'll recap the situation:

- Your all knowing God (and no other) created the universe
- Your all knowing God (and no other) created Adam and Eve
- Your all knowing God (and no other) created the Garden of Eden
- Your all knowing God (and no other) created the tree of knowledge
- Your all knowing God (and no other) created the Serpent and placed it in the garden
- Serpent then goes ahead and tricks Adam into eating from the tree Reveal Hidden Content.

There is no third party, these agents behaved as your god designed them to.

Originally posted by Agerg
Aha...so someone else helped create the universe and all that is within then? (a third party)

That was a rhetorical question btw; I suspect you notice the problem and are trying to pursuade me to adopt your tactic of needless obfuscation so to attain cognitive dissonance. I'll recap the situation:

- Your God (and no other) created the universe
- Your Go ...[text shortened]... g from the tree.

There is no third party, these agents behaved as your god designed them to.

it was a very simple and straightforward analogy me thinks, that you have chosen to ignore it is perhaps an indication of its unassailable logic, in that if it can be demonstrated that God, in his omniscient and majestic state, made contingency plans to purge the virus from the system, then he remains blameless.

One or two important details are inaccurate and their importance cannot be over emphasised, Adam was not tricked, he sought moral independence in full awareness of the consequences of his action.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was a very simple and straightforward analogy me thinks, that you have chosen to ignore it is perhaps an indication of its unassailable logic, in that if it can be demonstrated that God, in his omniscient and majestic state, made contingency plans to purge the virus from the system, then he remains blameless.

One or two important details are ...[text shortened]... s not tricked, he sought moral independence in full awareness of the consequences of his action.

😉

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was a very simple and straightforward analogy me thinks, that you have chosen to ignore it is perhaps an indication of its unassailable logic, in that if it can be demonstrated that God, in his omniscient and majestic state, made contingency plans to purge the virus from the system, then he remains blameless.

One or two important details are ...[text shortened]... s not tricked, he sought moral independence in full awareness of the consequences of his action.

Robbie I have countered your every objection (which seem to be variations on the theme of a "third party" ) and you resort as usual to sticking your fingers in your ears singing "la la la". There is no logic in your position, you introduce elements which have no reason to be there and can be argued away (as I have done).

Your god is either omniscient and at fault, or your god is omniscient and a blustering moron (and still at fault for creating the universe when he isn't fit for the task).

For your last point observe that Adam and Eve had not developed a sense of right or wrong prior to eating from the tree of knowledge of right and wrong. Adam's will, as you claim, to seek moral independence could not have been assigned any weight of rightness or wrongness by Adam himself since he did not have the prerequisite knowledge.

Originally posted by Agerg
Robbie I have countered your every objection and you resort as usual to sticking your fingers in your ears singing "la la la". There is no logic in your position, you introduce elements which have no reason to be there and can be argued away (as I have done).

Your god is either omniscient and at fault, or your god is omniscient and a blustering moron.

not quite dear Agers, i have acknowledged that God is omniscient, i have acknowledged that he created the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, the Angels, the Universe and everything in it, why you cannot answer a very straightforward assertion, in that if it can be demonstrated that a contingency plan was immediately effected, then God remains blameless i do not know. Its not so much to ask, is it. If it can be argued away then why does it remain unanswered?

If i may, although I realise that you are at liberty to say anything you like, I would ask you to please refrain from either getting personal or using rather caustic appellations, such as moron, i am a little tentative after a rather bad experience.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
😉

thanks Gramps its nice to behold a friendly face 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was a very simple and straightforward analogy me thinks, that you have chosen to ignore it is perhaps an indication of its unassailable logic, in that if it can be demonstrated that God, in his omniscient and majestic state, made contingency plans to purge the virus from the system, then he remains blameless.

One or two important details are ...[text shortened]... s not tricked, he sought moral independence in full awareness of the consequences of his action.

As for your god's "contingency plan" to purge the virus (which assumes he knew said virus would be introduced btw), that was just some crappy patch he added in afterwards after realising his mistake.

Fault still lies with your god... indeed he could have, hmm, what could your god have done?...[thinking].........[still thinking]... aha! not put a bloody tree of knowledge within their reach or a naughty serpent in the garden! 🙄

Originally posted by Agerg
Robbie I have countered your every objection (which seem to be variations on the theme of a "third party" ) and you resort as usual to sticking your fingers in your ears singing "la la la". There is no logic in your position, you introduce elements which have no reason to be there and can be argued away (as I have done).

Your god is either omniscient and a ...[text shortened]... f rightness or wrongness by Adam himself since he did not have the prerequisite knowledge.

For your last point observe that Adam and Eve had not developed a sense of right or wrong prior to eating from the tree of knowledge of right and wrong. Adam's will, as you claim, to seek moral independence could not have been assigned any weight of rightness or wrongness by Adam himself since he did not have the prerequisite knowledge.

this again is a misconception for when one examines the sacred text i think it can be thoroughly established that while Eve was seduced (intellectually i hasten to add), that Adam was fully aware of the consequences of his actions, indeed, until you can demonstrate that they were like mindless auto-bots prior to their quest for moral independence, this point will not stand.

Originally posted by Agerg
As for your god's "contingency plan" to purge the virus (which assumes he knew said virus would be introduced), that was just some crappy patch he added in afterwards after realising his mistake.

Fault still lies with your god.

mmm, I see, so all those expensive anti virus programmes may be denigrated to the realms of 'crappy patches'. Nope you have not demonstrated one bit that God is to blame. Indeed, if i can demonstrate that moral independence from God has resulted in untold misery, then God himself will be vindicated, will he not?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
For your last point observe that Adam and Eve had not developed a sense of right or wrong prior to eating from the tree of knowledge of right and wrong. Adam's will, as you claim, to seek moral independence could not have been assigned any weight of rightness or wrongness by Adam himself since he did not have the prerequisite knowledge.

this again ...[text shortened]... like mindless auto-bots prior to their quest for moral independence, this point will not stand.

it was a tree of knowledge of right and wrong was it not? How could you possibly establish Adam knew that eating from the tree was wrong prior to eating from it? Moreover, how could you possibly establish that the serpent had nothing to do with Adam's supposed choice (noting that your god had put the serpent there in the first place of course)

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
mmm, I see, so all those expensive anti virus programmes may be denigrated to the realms of 'crappy patches'. Nope you have not demonstrated one bit that God is to blame. Indeed, if i can demonstrate that moral independence from God has resulted in untold misery, then God himself will be vindicated, will he not?

Nah...just your god's solution is a crappy patch. He buggered up the program and then had to try and fix it (with a p!ss poor fix) afterwards.

Your god is not vindicated since by his design, it was arranged that the quest for "moral independence" would be sought.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
not quite dear Agers, i have acknowledged that God is omniscient, i have acknowledged that he created the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, the Angels, the Universe and everything in it, why you cannot answer a very straightforward assertion, in that if it can be demonstrated that a contingency plan was immediately effected, then God remains blameless i ...[text shortened]... ther caustic appellations, such as moron, i am a little tentative after a rather bad experience.

I've answered your first point, as for the latter it is not you whom I refer to as a moron, it is the god which is associated with the formulation you have presently which gets this appellation.

Originally posted by Agerg
it was a tree of knowledge of right and wrong was it not? How could you possibly establish Adam knew that eating from the tree was wrong prior to eating from it? Moreover, how could you possibly establish that the serpent had nothing to do with Adam's supposed choice (given your god had put the serpent there in the first place)

it was a literal tree with a symbolic value attached to it, that the fruit itself imparted knowledge i do not think can be established, although i will need to do some research.

How can it be established that Adam was aware, because my dear Agers, Adam had free will, he was not an auto-bot, he had been warned by God of the consequences prior to his rebellion and being of a perfect body and intellect one could hardly imagine that it was done in innocence! The serpent my dear Agers seduced Eve (intellectually) in turn it was Eve who induced her husband, not the serpent.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was a literal tree with a symbolic value attached to it, that the fruit itself imparted knowledge i do not think can be established, although i will need to do some research.

How can it be established that Adam was aware, because my dear Agers, Adam had free will, he was not an auto-bot, he had been warned by God of the consequences prior to ...[text shortened]... Agers seduced Eve (intellectually) in turn it was Eve who induced her husband, not the serpent.

chain sequence of events: it was arranged there would be a serpent, and an Eve that would be councelled by this serpent. This Eve then tempts Adam.

Your god started the chain, your god is at fault.
As for your claim of perfect intellect on the part of Adam? What is the scriptural basis for this? (and no, I want no fuzzy interpretation, I want an explicit statement this is indeed the case)