1. Standard memberusmc7257
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    12 Aug '12 05:53
    Please post any further reponses to our conversation in the homosexuality thread here, as it was not fair of us to continue along our line of conversation in that thread.

    Jaywill, you are more than welcome to repsond to the last post directed at you. I assume you went to bed and didn't ignore me to avoid spirited conversation. I am going to bed soon as well.

    RJ please stay out of this thread since nothing you can possibly say will make any sense to anyone.
  2. Joined
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    12 Aug '12 13:58
    Originally posted by usmc7257
    Please post any further reponses to our conversation in the homosexuality thread here, as it was not fair of us to continue along our line of conversation in that thread.

    Jaywill, you are more than welcome to repsond to the last post directed at you. I assume you went to bed and didn't ignore me to avoid spirited conversation. I am going to bed soon as w ...[text shortened]... lease stay out of this thread since nothing you can possibly say will make any sense to anyone.
    Does this thread continue the topic that included a reference to the Wizard of Oz and the man behind the curtain? If so, I have a link that goes into a little detail on that topic and includes a story about Daniel. If not, please ignore. Please note that this is not so much a knock on theism per se, as it is a knock on organized religion and idol worship. I won't dare to say this accurately represents what you had in mind.

    http://articles.exchristian.net/2006/09/greatest-story-ever-told-and-ignored.html

    quote:

    To me, The Wizard of Oz is the Greatest Story Ever Told. “There’s no place like home” dammit.

    I especially love the ending, when Toto unceremoniously yanks back the curtain to reveal the scam of the carnival huckster. Apparently Toto was fed up with all the whining and cowering of his companions, so he blew the whistle on the deal.

    “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!,” the big-headed apparition bellows, but it is much too late. Dorothy and friends have already seen too much. The “Wizard” is nothing but an old man. A “humbug”, the Scarecrow calls him. They are disgusted and disappointed, and rightly so. All that bowing, scraping and serving – all of that WORSHIP – and it was all for nothing. A lousy trick.

    Sound familiar? It should. How can a working, rational mind fail to see the corollary between this scene of revelation and how religion works in our world? How can you NOT see “the man behind the curtain”? What will you do now? Close your eyes and pretend you didn’t see him? Would that be very wise?

    Ironically, however, The Wizard of Oz is not the first fable to use this story telling mechanism to expose a religious scam.

    Some of you might be familiar with a forbidden book called the Apocrypha. (So named by St. Jerome. It means lost books. But they aren’t lost, just hidden from view. And with good reason, as I shall demonstrate.) Within the pages of this volume of Jewish lore is a book of Daniel titled Bel and the Dragon. Here is an on-line copy for your enjoyment at "http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/bel.html".

    In short the story goes like this:

    Daniel (Yes, THAT Daniel.) is at it once again in the nation of Persia. Cyrus is King now, and as usual there is god/idol worship afoot and Daniel isn’t happy about it.

    The priests of Bel claim that their statue is The Living God and they can prove it, because THEIR god eats! Daniel vehemently disagrees and of course is called out for blasphemy. King Cyrus is ready to kill SOMEBODY, so someone had better prove their case quickly.

    So Daniel, ever the clever lad, cooks up a scheme. He has King Cyrus lay out all the food before the statue of Bel, as is his norm. Everyone is ushered out of the temple, leaving just the King and Daniel. Daniel then has ashes strewn all about the temple floor in the presence of the King. They then back out of the temple and all of the doors are sealed with the signet of the King.

    During the night, as is their devious habit, the priests and their families enter the temple through some secret passage and they consume all the food left for Bel.

    In the morning, the King and Daniel arrive. They find the seals unbroken. The doors are opened and the King marvels that the food has been consumed by Bel. But Daniel simply laughs and directs King Cyrus’ gaze down to the temple floor where the multitude of human foot prints of men, women and children have been trekked through the ashes.

    King Cyrus is livid and as is always the case in these “holy” fables, Cyrus has the priests and their families executed and the statue of Bel destroyed.

    unquote
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    12 Aug '12 18:36
    Originally posted by JS357
    Does this thread continue the topic that included a reference to the Wizard of Oz and the man behind the curtain? If so, I have a link that goes into a little detail on that topic and includes a story about Daniel. If not, please ignore. Please note that this is not so much a knock on theism per se, as it is a knock on organized religion and idol worship. I wo ...[text shortened]... Cyrus has the priests and their families executed and the statue of Bel destroyed.

    unquote
    Okay, wth, I'll bite.

    Just who is this "man behind the curtain" in Christianity? Because I don't see one.

    Care to speculate?
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    12 Aug '12 21:22
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Okay, wth, I'll bite.

    Just who is this "man behind the curtain" in Christianity? Because I don't see one.

    Care to speculate?
    there have been many, at the moment its ann coulter.
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    13 Aug '12 00:37
    Originally posted by usmc7257
    Please post any further reponses to our conversation in the homosexuality thread here, as it was not fair of us to continue along our line of conversation in that thread.

    Jaywill, you are more than welcome to repsond to the last post directed at you. I assume you went to bed and didn't ignore me to avoid spirited conversation. I am going to bed soon as w ...[text shortened]... lease stay out of this thread since nothing you can possibly say will make any sense to anyone.
    Righto.
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    13 Aug '12 00:53
    Originally posted by usmc7257
    How am I being biased? How am I twisting the christian thought process? Is witnessing not in your doctrine? Is the reason for this witnessing not to do as you are commanded to gain your spot in heaven? I apologize if you think I have twisted your words. I don't recall a debate with you in the past, and you are clearly have a thought process aboove RJ (my no ...[text shortened]... n when you just assume that I have missed the point because I reject your way of thinking.
    How am I being biased? How am I twisting the christian thought process? Is witnessing not in your doctrine? Is the reason for this witnessing not to do as you are commanded to gain your spot in heaven? I apologize if you think I have twisted your words. I don't recall a debate with you in the past, and you are clearly have a thought process aboove RJ (my normal focus of disagreement). You seem genuine. If you wish to pigeonhole me into a "sonhouse" view of christianity, that is not my problem. I have always thought for myself and will continue to do so until my time on earth is up.
    No, the reason for witnessing is not to "gain my spot in heaven". This is the bias I was talking about. You do not believe in God or the Bible and so then you think we are guided by some selfish motives. To be truthful, I witness to help bring others to Christ, to share in the "Amazing Grace" I have found. This is why I called your version of my motives a "sonhouse" version. He also believes all Christians are either brainwashed or self-serving. This is not the aim of the Bible. To do these things as you say are considered blasphemy and sin by God; it is not the way we are exhorted to live. I've already told you that at heart, we do things "because they are the right things to do". Not because of what we may get out of it or for our own selfish benefit. Firstly, that's just not how it works (God is not stupid), and secondly, we are taught to love our brother as ourselves. We want to see them reach Heaven too.
    My denial of god is not dependant on side issues. I deny him beause I don't believe in the literal stories of the bible. I think most religions provide a good foundation of morality, but the bible has too many contradictions for me to believe that it was a god's work and not man's. I have been a part of cristianity for many years. What makes you think that I deny god because of points I have missed? I have a very good understanding of the bible. Any points you think I have missed are noted, but I think you might be mistaken when you just assume that I have missed the point because I reject your way of thinking.
    The points I made above are what I'm talking about when I say you've missed the point. I have no other reaction when I tell you what Christianity is about to me, and then you immediately say "well, don't you do it for your own benefit?" I know you're not intentionally trying to be offensive, but that's how I feel (offended) when you say these things. Doing it all "for my own benefit" is simply not the point of Christianity or the Bible, and to assume it is, especially after I just told you it's not, is offensive. This is why I said you're missing the point.
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    13 Aug '12 00:59
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    there have been many, at the moment its ann coulter.
    For her, I'd go more with "tool of Satan", but you're entitled to your opinion. 😵
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    13 Aug '12 02:07
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    For her, I'd go more with "tool of Satan", but you're entitled to your opinion. 😵
    I can relate to Ann Coulter as being accused of being un-Christian.

    Confronting some critics' views that her content and style of writing is un-Christian, Coulter stated that, "I'm a Christian first and a mean-spirited, bigoted conservative second, and don't you ever forget it." She also said, "Christianity fuels everything I write. Being a Christian means that I am called upon to do battle against lies, injustice, cruelty, hypocrisy—you know, all the virtues in the church of liberalism." In Godless: The Church of Liberalism, Coulter characterized the theory of evolution as bogus science, and contrasted her beliefs to what she called the left's "obsession with Darwinism and the Darwinian view of the world, which replaces sanctification of life with sanctification of sex and death."

    She is a woman after my own heart. I love her attitude.
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    13 Aug '12 02:39
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I can relate to Ann Coulter as being accused of being un-Christian.

    Confronting some critics' views that her content and style of writing is un-Christian, Coulter stated that, "I'm a Christian first and a mean-spirited, bigoted conservative second, and don't you ever forget it." She also said, "Christianity fuels everything I write. Being a Christian mea ...[text shortened]... ication of sex and death."

    She is a woman after my own heart. I love her attitude.
    So Suzianne was spot on then, a psycho who is just stalking Christianity the way only a psycho can.
  10. Joined
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    13 Aug '12 02:45
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    [quote]How am I being biased? How am I twisting the christian thought process? Is witnessing not in your doctrine? Is the reason for this witnessing not to do as you are commanded to gain your spot in heaven? I apologize if you think I have twisted your words. I don't recall a debate with you in the past, and you are clearly have a thought process aboove RJ ...[text shortened]... it's not, is offensive. This is why I said you're missing the point.
    So are you saying non Christians cannot form an opinion of Christians that diverges from Christians stated view of themselves.

    Seems like you are allotting yourselves special 'hands off' status in the melee, whilst Christians are of course bound by a Christian duty to tell everybody else their non Christian short comings.
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    13 Aug '12 03:08
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Okay, wth, I'll bite.

    Just who is this "man behind the curtain" in Christianity? Because I don't see one.

    Care to speculate?
    Anyone who pretends to speak for (in the context of your question, the Christian) God. Do you think there have been none?
  12. Standard memberusmc7257
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    13 Aug '12 03:39
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    No, the reason for witnessing is not to "gain my spot in heaven". This is the bias I was talking about. You do not believe in God or the Bible and so then you think we are guided by some selfish motives. To be truthful, I witness to help bring others to Christ, to share in the "Amazing Grace" I have found.
    My apologies if I have offended you, perhaps I didn't clarify my points well enough. I think that christians in general enjoy their lives and want others to find the same joy that they experience on a daily basis. That being said, it IS in your doctrine that you witness to others and attempt to bring them into the fold. So in an average christians mind (in my opinion), witnessing serves a dual purpose. Why you generally want to help others, the requirement of you to witness isn't really a hard concept for you to grasp. Who wouldn't want to help their neighbor?

    It's kind of like having your cake and eating it too. You want to help, and its gets you in god's good graces. For you it's a win win. If someone tells you that you have to do a job to attain your ultimate goal, and you enjoy doing that job, its no big deal right? So why such a harsh reaction (not necessarily you, but christians in general) when your word is rejected on account it being percieved as wrong? You did your job. You tried. Do you take it as a personal attack? If I'm not buying what you are selling, why do some get so pushy about it? Offering a rebuttal in a discusion is normal and expected, but when your stance is "my god's way or hell", it draws a pretty definitive line in the sand.

    If we have the same morals i.e. don't lie, cheat, steal, honor thy parents etc..., and the only thing that makes us different our end of life senarios, what is the big deal?

    Many athiests are perfectly happy with their thought process. If you are in a good place, and they are in a good place, then why mess with the balance of things? The only reason I could think of would be that it is commanded of you that you do so. Again, no offense is intended from this post. I am just trying to let you know why I assume that witnessing is self serving just as much as self gratifying
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    13 Aug '12 04:161 edit
    I will reply to some of these questions. Just remember that these are my, jaywill's replies.

    That being said, it IS in your doctrine that you witness to others and attempt to bring them into the fold.


    Definitely, I also speak the Gospel that men and women would be added, not to the fold, but to the one flock. Remember that Jesus told Peter, "I will make you fishers of men."

    I was a fish caught in the Gospel net. And now I follow Christ that others come be caught in the Gospel net. We are fishers of men.


    So in an average christians mind (in my opinion), witnessing serves a dual purpose. Why you generally want to help others, the requirement of you to witness isn't really a hard concept for you to grasp. Who wouldn't want to help their neighbor?


    We are laboring to do that which is so worthy and no other labor can be more noble. That is to bring back the Lord Jesus Christ to this earth.

    For the apostle Peter spoke of the saints HASTENING the day of the Lord. That includes the second coming of Christ. And we as His gospel preachers and more so as His Bride and Wife are about wooing our Bridegroom back to the earth -

    "Expecting and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will be dissolved, and the elements, burning with intense heat, are to be melted away. But according to His promise we are expecting new heavens and a new earth, in which rigthteousness dwells." ( 2 Peter 3:12,13)

    Peter says the church is not only "expecting" the coming of Christ and the day of God. But the church is "expecting AND hastening" that time. This mean that we can participate in causing that day to arrive.

    Now there are many many noble things a person can do for society. There are many good works that one can perform for the human race. But I think none of them surpass participating in hastening the second coming of Jesus Christ.

    Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world. And Peter says with His reign we are expecting a new heaven and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. So there could hardly be any labor or work which is more noble than to bring back the Lord Jesus to this planet.

    The preaching of the gospel of the kingdom to all the world is an important part of wooing the Lord Jesus back to the earth physically. Also turning over our whole being to be saturated and permeated with His Holy Spirit, being built up into the oneness of the Body of Christ, plays an important part to bring back Christ.

    Jesus Christ, prophetically, is called "the desire of all the nations".

    "And I will shake all the nations, and the Desire of all the nations will come; and I will fill this house with glory, says Jehovah of hosts." (Haggai 2:7)

    WHETHER THEY KNOW IT OR NOT ... WHETHER THEY APPRECIATE IT OR NOT ... Christ, the Son of God, is The Desire of all the nations.


    The justice, the peace, the healing, the restoration, the saving of nature, the elimination of tyrants, the release of captives, the end of wars, all these things all the nations desire. Christ will usher in all these wonderful things.

    So to bring back the Lord Jesus in this Gospel Age is the very noble labor for a human being to participate in. And any, old, young, man or woman may be a full participant. There are many noble things one can do for the world. None of them are as noble as cooperating with God to bring back Christ, the King of kings, "the Desire of all the nations.".
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    13 Aug '12 08:41
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I can relate to Ann Coulter as being accused of being un-Christian.

    Confronting some critics' views that her content and style of writing is un-Christian, Coulter stated that, "I'm a Christian first and a mean-spirited, bigoted conservative second, and don't you ever forget it." She also said, "Christianity fuels everything I write. Being a Christian mea ...[text shortened]... ication of sex and death."

    She is a woman after my own heart. I love her attitude.
    some ones got the hots for anne coulter not naming any names.............rjhinds. is it true you had a mastabatorium made adorned with 1000's of sketches you made of a giant naked you and ann coulter stomping on lefties, 911 widows and muslims?
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    13 Aug '12 15:43
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I can relate to Ann Coulter as being accused of being un-Christian.

    Confronting some critics' views that her content and style of writing is un-Christian, Coulter stated that, "I'm a Christian first and a mean-spirited, bigoted conservative second, and don't you ever forget it." She also said, "Christianity fuels everything I write. Being a Christian mea ...[text shortened]... ication of sex and death."

    She is a woman after my own heart. I love her attitude.
    No, sorry, I just see her as stupid.

    In fact, I cannot see how ANY woman living in the USA today is a conservative. Same goes for minorities. The GOP (the Rich White Men party) laughs at women and minorities also. Sure they take their money and trumpet their support but then they retire to their back rooms and laugh their asses off at how stupid humans can be and continue their agenda of keeping women and minorities down while not appearing to do so "too much".

    If she was indeed a Christian first and a bigot second, as she says, then she would not belong to a party that SAYS they are Christian but then partakes in the most UN-Christian of activities. The GOP is a party for, by and of Rich White Men. Period. If you're NOT rich, NOT white, NOT a man, then they love to get your support (just to show that they embrace everyone), but then laugh their asses off at you (in private, of course) for being so freaking stupid.
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