A False Sense of Security

@dj2becker said
Oh the irony.

You still here?
Why don’t you start a thread on ‘expressions of repressed homosexuality on Internet forum boards’.

@divegeester said
You still here?
Why don’t you start a thread on ‘expressions of repressed homosexuality on Internet forum boards’.

“ Gosh that slightly homosexual looking guy in your avatar is HAWT!”
-Divegeester

Case in point.

@petewxyz said
I think that admittedly badly worded sentence is being taken out of context of the post it was in. As opposed to anybody wishing to find the meaning of the post they seem to want me to defend a position that I wasn't trying to talk about. It's a shame because I think there is a potentially interesting conversation about the implications of believing 100% that the end of life ...[text shortened]... st that was ill worded and not the point of the post or I might find myself in very strange company.

I don’t think your assertion was “badly worded”, I think it was very well worded. Just blatantly wrong.

To use a football analogy (as you are clearly a fan)...The problem you have here (if it can be termed as such) is that what you asserted is completely wrong on such fundamental level that it has sort of stood like a linesman flagging that the ball went out of play but you are just playing on regardless, and rather just holding up your hands and admitting that the ball went out of play you are making all sorts of elaborate cross-field passes in what appears to be an attempt to distract from this fact.

@dj2becker said
“ Gosh that slightly homosexual looking guy in your avatar is HAWT!”
-Divegeester

Case in point.

Bored.

@divegeester said
I don’t think your assertion was “badly worded”, I think it was very well worded. Just blatantly wrong.

To use a football analogy (as you are clearly a fan)...The problem you have here (if it can be termed as such) is that what you asserted is completely wrong on such fundamental level that it has sort of stood like a linesman flagging that the ball went out of play bu ...[text shortened]... l sorts of elaborate cross-field passes in what appears to be an attempt to distract from this fact.

Not sure why I am carrying on, but the point I was making is that there is a difference between something and nothing. It actually reminds me of when somebody asked me what I do now I am retired from a perspective of thinking retirement was like a job with a routine that could be described as opposed to incredibly varied.

Atheism is not a religion so I imagine that when you are seconds, minutes or even days away from death and the mind does not have a sense of security offered by religion it is more likely to come up with some of the weirder manoeuvres that the mind can come up with in awkward situations and deathbed conversion may be one such thing.

I certainly wasn't trying to say I had come up with the test for atheism and deathbed conversion proves atheist positive with antibodies present. I was more reflecting on a recent request for a religious funeral by an atheist who was close to me.

@petewxyz said
I think that admittedly badly worded sentence is being taken out of context of the post it was in.

You said "The sign of true atheism should be accepting the comfort of religious conversion on the deathbed." And my question was basically "Why do you think that?" How was your claim "taken out of context" by me asking "Why?"

@petewxyz said
I certainly don't want to overly reflect on a conversation in this forum where everybody focussed on the one small sentence in the post that was ill worded and not the point of the post or I might find myself in very strange company.

If it was ill-worded, what words should have you used instead of "true atheist"?

@petewxyz said
Not sure why I am carrying on, but the point I was making is that there is a difference between something and nothing. It actually reminds me of when somebody asked me what I do now I am retired from a perspective of thinking retirement was like a job with a routine that could be described as opposed to incredibly varied.

Atheism is not a religion so I imagine that when y ...[text shortened]... I was more reflecting on a recent request for a religious funeral by an atheist who was close to me.

Not sure why I am carrying on, but the point I was making is that there is a difference between something and nothing. It actually reminds me of when somebody asked me what I do now I am retired from a perspective of thinking retirement was like a job with a routine that could be described as opposed to incredibly varied.

Atheism is not a religion so I imagine that when you are seconds, minutes or even days away from death and the mind does not have a sense of security offered by religion it is more likely to come up with some of the weirder manoeuvres that the mind can come up with in awkward situations and deathbed conversion may be one such thing.

I certainly wasn't trying to say I had come up with the test for atheism and deathbed conversion proves atheist positive with antibodies present. I was more reflecting on a recent request for a religious funeral by an atheist who was close to me.

Would you be prepared to say that an atheist who ended up as a theist was "not an atheist" at the point of death rather than a "true atheist"?

@fmf said
You said "The sign of true atheism should be accepting the comfort of religious conversion on the deathbed." And my question was basically "Why do you think that?" How was your claim "taken out of context" by asking "Why?"

Because the question of 'why?' doesn't really work if the purpose of the sentence was to illustrate the thesis I was putting forward, that atheism would really make what you say or do at the end irrelevant since it can have no implications for what is to come if there is in fact nothing else to come. I.e. doing, saying and believing any old thing on the deathbed is compatible with a preceding life of atheism, since you might just as well think and believe whatever gives you comfort and security. There is no god watching or listening and planning which floor of hell you get and whether you get a sea view or a balcony based on whatever thoughts you allow to comfort your mind.

So let's make the thread about the fact that I have clearly stated I believe there are balconies in hell. I suspect there are simply spirituality forums there.

@petewxyz said
Because the question of 'why?' doesn't really work if the purpose of the sentence was to illustrate the thesis I was putting forward, that atheism would really make what you say or do at the end irrelevant since it can have no implications for what is to come if there is in fact nothing else to come. I.e. doing, saying and believing any old thing on the deathbed is compatibl ...[text shortened]... stated I believe there are balconies in hell. I suspect there are simply spirituality forums there.

But an atheist lacks belief in God. Why would your "thesis" be that a "true atheist" was one who became a believing-in-God theist?

@petewxyz said
atheism would really make what you say or do at the end irrelevant since it can have no implications for what is to come if there is in fact nothing else to come. I.e. doing, saying and believing any old thing on the deathbed is compatible with a preceding life of atheism, since you might just as well think and believe whatever gives you comfort and security. There is no god ...[text shortened]... d whether you get a sea view or a balcony based on whatever thoughts you allow to comfort your mind.

Atheism would really make what you say or do at the end irrelevant since it can have no implications for what is to come if there is in fact nothing else to come. I.e. doing, saying and believing any old thing on the deathbed is compatible with a preceding life of atheism, since you might just as well think and believe whatever gives you comfort and security. There is no god watching or listening and planning which floor of hell you get and whether you get a sea view or a balcony based on whatever thoughts you allow to comfort your mind.

What kind of "religious conversion on the deathbed" is this you are describing here?

@fmf said
[b]Not sure why I am carrying on, but the point I was making is that there is a difference between something and nothing. It actually reminds me of when somebody asked me what I do now I am retired from a perspective of thinking retirement was like a job with a routine that could be described as opposed to incredibly varied.

Atheism is not a religion so I imagine that when yo ...[text shortened]... st who ended up as a theist was "not an atheist" at the point of death rather than a "true atheist"?

It would depend on how long you felt somebody had to behave in a certain way that was true to your definition of the label in order to acquire a label.

If I say that I am in fact severely anorexic almost all the time other than when I am eating, I imagine you might feel that for the label to be properly used I would need to be somebody who stopped eating rather longer than the intervals between meals. Even if I stopped eating for a few days you might deem the label misplaced if there were extreme circumstances to explain the behavioural change such as being on my deathbed?

@fmf said
Atheism would really make what you say or do at the end irrelevant since it can have no implications for what is to come if there is in fact nothing else to come. I.e. doing, saying and believing any old thing on the deathbed is compatible with a preceding life of atheism, since you might just as well think and believe wh ...[text shortened]... ur mind.

What kind of "religious conversion on the deathbed" is this you are describing here?

I don't think it is relevant to elaborate on the personal example beyond making the point that there was something on my mind other than what I was being told that I was doing and saying. I think the discussion would be the same whatever the nature of the deathbed conversion in somebody who had lived their life as a committed atheist right up to the duress of approaching death.

@petewxyz said
It would depend on how long you felt somebody had to behave in a certain way that was true to your definition of the label in order to acquire a label.

An atheist is someone who lacks belief in God. That's how the "atheist" label comes about. It's not about "behaviour". It's about belief ~ or the lack of it. In your "thesis", how would someone have to behave and how long would they have to believe in God in order to become a "true atheist"?

@petewxyz said
I don't think it is relevant to elaborate on the personal example beyond making the point that there was something on my mind other than what I was being told that I was doing and saying. I think the discussion would be the same whatever the nature of the deathbed conversion in somebody who had lived their life as a committed atheist right up to the duress of approaching death.

I think it is relevant and you should elaborate. You did not appear to be describing a "religious conversion on the deathbed" at all. Like BigDoggProblem suggested, it seems you do not know what religious faith is. You were describing something different... "believing any old thing on the deathbed ... because there is no god watching". How is this a "conversion"?