A god without man is pointless.

OdBod

Spirituality

29 Jan '13 14:56

Suzianne
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02 Feb '13 21:41
Originally posted by Kepler
Never seen a Triceratops then. They had three very pointy points.
😀
googlefudge
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03 Feb '13 01:56
Originally posted by Suzianne
The universe "works fine with just the laws of physics" and "needs no meddling" simply because there was a creator to make it so, yes, even from the moment of the big bang.
Prove It.
Suzianne
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03 Feb '13 02:44
Originally posted by googlefudge
Prove It.
I cannot prove it, it is my faith.

BTW, you should market that... Prove It!

Put it on a button, much like the old "I found it!" buttons.

You could make a mint with the right marketing.
stellspalfie
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03 Feb '13 02:54
Originally posted by Suzianne
I cannot prove it, it is my faith.

BTW, you should market that... Prove It!

Put it on a button, much like the old "I found it!" buttons.

You could make a mint with the right marketing.
its about time there was an atheist clothing range. they could sponsor top scientist to wear the gear, have michio kaku in an atheist tracksuit saying 'just prove it'.
KellyJay
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03 Feb '13 11:011 edit
Originally posted by googlefudge
Nonsense.

God cannot imbue me with any meaning. Only I can imbue myself with meaning.

If I am pointless without god then I am also pointless with god.

And you keep talking about properties of a being you admit you have no evidence for
even the existence of. You are in short just making stuff up.

Your faith is neither evidence nor justificat long fine without god, we have meaning without god. OUR meaning.

Which is infinitely better.
RJHinds
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03 Feb '13 11:30
Originally posted by Suzianne
I cannot prove it, it is my faith.

BTW, you should market that... Prove It!

Put it on a button, much like the old "I found it!" buttons.

You could make a mint with the right marketing.
Yes you can prove it. It says so, right there in the beginning words of the Holy Bible, which is the word of truth. Quote him the words as proof. If he refuses to believe the proof, then that is on him. 😏

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
Kepler
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03 Feb '13 12:36
Originally posted by stellspalfie
its about time there was an atheist clothing range. they could sponsor top scientist to wear the gear, have michio kaku in an atheist tracksuit saying 'just prove it'.
I have a shirt that has "Just du it" with a load of calculus stuff below. Also another one with a pair of chaps fighting and "You want proof? I'll give you proof!" underneath. Reminds me of this forum.
~~Removed~~
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03 Feb '13 13:161 edit
Originally posted by googlefudge
Prove It.
Prove that we all were not created 15 minutes ago with the sensation of age planted in our minds and in the world.

Prove that the earth is not actually standing perfectly still with the whole universe revolving around it.

Prove that through the scientific method man can arrive at truth.
RJHinds
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03 Feb '13 13:332 edits
Originally posted by sonship
Prove that we all were not created 15 minutes ago with the sensation of age planted in our minds and in the world.

Prove that the earth is not actually standing perfectly still with the whole universe revolving around it.

Prove that through the scientific method man can arrive at truth.
We have a great God that can make the Earth spin at about 1,000 miles per hour and yet to us it seems like it is still and not moving at all. We have a great God that can make the heavens and the Earth in 6 days and make it seem to evil-lution scientists that it took billions of years.

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

(John 8:31-32 NKJV)

HalleluYah !! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/bible-say-anything-astronomy
stellspalfie
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03 Feb '13 13:55
Originally posted by sonship
Prove that we all were not created 15 minutes ago with the sensation of age planted in our minds and in the world.

Prove that the earth is not actually standing perfectly still with the whole universe revolving around it.

Prove that through the scientific method man can arrive at truth.
" Prove that the earth is not actually standing perfectly still with the whole universe revolving around it. "

stellar parallax and the doppler effect are two that spring to mind. im sure there are lots of other ways.

"Prove that through the scientific method man can arrive at truth"

1+1=2

Prove that we all were not created 15 minutes ago with the sensation of age planted in our minds and in the world.

ill sure googlefudge can answer this one better, but i would say that due to there being zero evidence to support a 15min universe and lots to support an older universe, the chances of it being true are so small that its classed as zero.
googlefudge
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03 Feb '13 14:071 edit
Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]" Prove that the earth is not actually standing perfectly still with the whole universe revolving around it. "

stellar parallax and the doppler effect are two that spring to mind. im sure there are lots of other ways.

"Prove that through the scientific method man can arrive at truth"

1+1=2

Prove that we all were not crea ...[text shortened]... t an older universe, the chances of it being true are so small that its classed as zero.[/b]
No you [stellspalfie] got that right.

Due to the problem of hard solipsism we can't know anything about the universe with absolute 100% certainty.

Thus all knowledge about the universe is probabilistic.

The probability that the universe was created 15 mins ago (or 6~10kyrs ago) looking like it's ~13.77 billion years
old is vastly vastly less than the probability that it is actually ~13.77 billion years old.

Science can thus demonstrate (prove) beyond all reasonable doubt (way way beyond reasonable doubt) that the
universe is ~13.77 billion years old and not 15 minutes old.

As for the earth standing still, the Coriolis effect springs to mind in addition to the two you have already stated.

And as for proving the scientific method can arrive at the truth...

Well I would say it doesn't arrive at the truth just iterates closer and closer to it becoming less and less wrong over time.

However for all practical purposes I would point out all that science has achieved in the last couple of hundred years compared
to what religion and faith based belief has achieved in the 10,000 years before hand.

I look at the diseases cured, the technology invented, the knowledge gained, the lives saved and made better and longer...
and I compare that to the total and utter failure of religion to achieve any of those things.

Then I choose science.

There is of course a formal mathematical proof of the scientific method, but you [sonship] would have to understand maths and logic
to understand that. you [sonship] don't.
googlefudge
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03 Feb '13 14:12
Originally posted by Suzianne
I cannot prove it, it is my faith.

BTW, you should market that... Prove It!

Put it on a button, much like the old "I found it!" buttons.

You could make a mint with the right marketing.
I know you cannot prove it.

However because you can't prove it you cannot claim it as fact.

You can say you believe it all you like but any and every time you state it as fact I will demand proof.

If you can't prove it you can't know it. And you are thus lying any time you claim it as fact.

Incidentally I apply this standard to anyone and everyone, I am not singling you out.

Also I am pretty sure someone will have got there first on the "Prove it!" badge/T-Shirt idea...

Their are quite a number of atheist/skeptical/rationalist conventions around the world and I would be
very surprised if nobody had produced a "Prove it!" set of merchandise to sell at them.
Suzianne
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03 Feb '13 16:26
Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes you can prove it. It says so, right there in the beginning words of the Holy Bible, which is the word of truth. Quote him the words as proof. If he refuses to believe the proof, then that is on him. 😏

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
Ron, just listen to yourself for five minutes, and see if what you say makes any sense.

(Provided that you can stop listening to yourself after five minutes.)
Suzianne
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03 Feb '13 16:28
Originally posted by sonship
Prove that we all were not created 15 minutes ago with the sensation of age planted in our minds and in the world.

Prove that the earth is not actually standing perfectly still with the whole universe revolving around it.

Prove that through the scientific method man can arrive at truth.
"Just as a comedian must know his audience, so should a man who is looking to convince others." -- Suzianne

(Okay, that last one was pretty good. 🙂 )
Suzianne
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03 Feb '13 16:311 edit
Originally posted by RJHinds
We have a great God that can make the Earth spin at about 1,000 miles per hour and yet to us it seems like it is still and not moving at all. We have a great God that can make the heavens and the Earth in 6 days and make it seem to evil-lution scientists that it took billions of years.

[b]Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide i ...[text shortened]... y! Holy! Holy!

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/bible-say-anything-astronomy[/b]
Arrrrrgh!!

Physics! My God, man, Physics!!!!

Sigh... I'm almost ready to understand why some people are anti-religion.