14 Jun '07 02:26>
Deliver us from Evil
Originally posted by pawnhandlerIf you would watch the film, you would come to learn how ignorant your question is, as it demonstrates how the rampant sexual abuse at the hands of clergy is a direct result of the nature of the Catholic power hierarchy itself coupled with some dogmatic beliefs of both those in power and their followers.
Is there a movie you think everyone should watch about pedophile parents, uncles, aunts, and grandparents too? Or is your concern limited to a small group of predators?
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI already have seen numerous cases on the news, 60 minutes, documentaries, etc., and I do know the horrors of priests being shoved from parish to parish. I have seen numerous interviews of the victims, and seen how the problem has also become out in the open in Ireland and at least a handful of other places as well. I knew a nun who was named in a court case because she had told the victim when he was a boy (and his whole class) in second grade that he should always obey priests. I am not blind to this horrendous problem. But due to various jobs I've had, I think it's safe to say that I've known at least a few hundred -- hundred -- victims of sexual abuse, and every single one was by a relative -- older brother, father, grandfather, uncle, aunt, mother "renting them out", step-father, but never once someone outside the family tree/household. However, these were all women who were abused as toddlers through teens. If you want to limit your statistics to boys, then it may be possible that more boys were molested by priests than by coaches, scout leaders, and other predators in positions of power.
If you would watch the film, you would come to learn how ignorant your question is, as it demonstrates how the rampant sexual abuse at the hands of clergy is a direct result of the nature of the Catholic power hierarchy itself coupled with some dogmatic beliefs of both those in power and their followers.
To say that the problem of child molestatio ...[text shortened]... t grossly. It is a false presumption that Catholics blinded by loyalty need to be disabused of.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesTo say that the problem of child molestation within the church is not substantially greater than the problem without is empirically in error, not just marginally but grossly. It is a false presumption that Catholics blinded by loyalty need to be disabused of.
If you would watch the film, you would come to learn how ignorant your question is, as it demonstrates how the rampant sexual abuse at the hands of clergy is a direct result of the nature of the Catholic power hierarchy itself coupled with some dogmatic beliefs of both those in power and their followers.
To say that the problem of child molestatio ...[text shortened]... t grossly. It is a false presumption that Catholics blinded by loyalty need to be disabused of.
Originally posted by pawnhandlerIt's the hypocracy of the priests and the church in general that I find most disgusting. They allow this sort of thing to happen, keep it covered up, and even when it comes up the worst that happens is a slap on the wrist. And they have the gall to tell us we're all horrible sinners that need to repent! I mean, pot, kettle....
I already have seen numerous cases on the news, 60 minutes, documentaries, etc., and I do know the horrors of priests being shoved from parish to parish. I have seen numerous interviews of the victims, and seen how the problem has also become out in the open in Ireland and at least a handful of other places as well. I knew a nun who was named in a cour ...[text shortened]... ested by priests than by coaches, scout leaders, and other predators in positions of power.
Originally posted by vistesdThere was a thread about a year ago here in which even lucifershammer conceded that the available numbers indicated that in the United States a random Catholic priest is over four times as likely to have molested a child as a random man.
[b]To say that the problem of child molestation within the church is not substantially greater than the problem without is empirically in error, not just marginally but grossly. It is a false presumption that Catholics blinded by loyalty need to be disabused of.
Statistics?
By “within the church,” I presume from context that you mean (a) the RCC, ...[text shortened]... clergy specifically?
Such a gross empirical error ought to be easily empirically established?[/b]
Originally posted by scottishinnzI just don't understand the whole notion of sending a perp to another parish...like a change of scenery means anything. Every time I try to figure it out, all I can come up with is the notion that the priests were in a position to blackmail the bishops or the bishops were afraid they were, like reporting the bishop for having a girlfriend ... or for also being a pedophile. I also don't understand why those parents who found out didn't go to the police. Yes, some went to the bishop (and we see what a swell idea that was) but I'm thinking if someone had been molesting my child, I'd want him crucified. I can't imagine a bishop having any words that would buy my silence.
It's the hypocracy of the priests and the church in general that I find most disgusting. They allow this sort of thing to happen, keep it covered up, and even when it comes up the worst that happens is a slap on the wrist. And they have the gall to tell us [b]we're all horrible sinners that need to repent! I mean, pot, kettle....[/b]
Originally posted by pawnhandlerThe cited movie estimates that there have been over 50,000 victims of clergy abuse in the last 50 years in the United States alone, and that reports of clergy abuse elsewhere in the world are nearly completely suppressed.
Or is your concern limited to a small group of predators?
Originally posted by pawnhandlerWatch the movie. A great portion of the explanation lies in the official practice of "bella figura."
I just don't understand the whole notion of sending a perp to another parish...like a change of scenery means anything. Every time I try to figure it out, all I can come up with is the notion that the priests were in a position to blackmail the bishops or the bishops were afraid they were, like reporting the bishop for having a girlfriend ... or for als ...[text shortened]... want him crucified. I can't imagine a bishop having any words that would buy my silence.
Originally posted by pawnhandlerThat's not a very forgiving attitude. Understandable for an evolved primate, but not a work of a divine creator.
I just don't understand the whole notion of sending a perp to another parish...like a change of scenery means anything. Every time I try to figure it out, all I can come up with is the notion that the priests were in a position to blackmail the bishops or the bishops were afraid they were, like reporting the bishop for having a girlfriend ... or for als ...[text shortened]... want him crucified. I can't imagine a bishop having any words that would buy my silence.
Originally posted by vistesdStatistics
[b]To say that the problem of child molestation within the church is not substantially greater than the problem without is empirically in error, not just marginally but grossly. It is a false presumption that Catholics blinded by loyalty need to be disabused of.
Statistics?
By “within the church,” I presume from context that you mean (a) the RCC, ...[text shortened]... clergy specifically?
Such a gross empirical error ought to be easily empirically established?[/b]
Originally posted by pawnhandlerWhat would Jebus do?
You're right; it's not a forgiving attitude. Very astute.
Originally posted by pawnhandlerThat's exactly right. My issue isn't about the sexual abuse per se. It's about the Catholic hierarchy of power and the Catholic system of beliefs and practices that foster and enable the abuse.
That sounds more like the issue isn't about sexual abuse by clergy.