22 Feb 10
Originally posted by josephwGod can set up the conditions for any scenario to be played out. Since we are only aware of the good/bad,action/rection-type universe that we inhabit, sometimes we flirt with questions that subscribe to other realities. Other universes.
That is, a question for those who believe there is a God, and not just any god, but the God who created everything that was created. The God.
Is there anything impossible for God to do? That is, besides lie.
You say God doesn't lie? Pretty easy to do when you dont talk at all.
Keep trying ,josephw, your sincerity and enterntainment value are much appreciated🙂
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Originally posted by josephwHow quaint. A loophole, even for God - but not for logic. Reminds me of the following:
That is, a question for those who believe there is a God, and not just any god, but the God who created everything that was created. The God.
Is there anything impossible for God to do? That is, besides lie.
NORMAN: But there was no explosion.
MUDD: I lied.
NORMAN: What?
KIRK: He lied. Everything Harry tells you is a lie. Remember that. Everything Harry tells you is a lie.
MUDD: Listen to this carefully, Norman. I am lying.
NORMAN: You say you are lying, but if everything you say is a lie then you are telling the truth, but you cannot tell the truth because everything you say is a lie. You lie. You tell the truth. But you cannot for...Illogical! Illogical! Please explain!
22 Feb 10
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwFor me its kind of like the age old question, "Can God or can't He make a bolder large enough to crush himself with. I suppose he could.....if he is stupid. That is kind of in line with my perseption of sin. Sin is plain stupid and counterproductive. We see that in our own lives even. Why on Earth then would God participate in such stupidity? Sin is simply the opposite of his will, much like you doing the opposite of your own will. The difference being, of course, God is all knowing and holy. I say those that are capable of sin, do so ONLY because they are not all knowing enough to see that it is so counterproductive in their own lives and lose faith in the One that is all knowing.
That is, a question for those who believe there is a God, and not just any god, but the God who created everything that was created. The God.
Is there anything impossible for God to do? That is, besides lie.
22 Feb 10
Originally posted by whodeyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_paradox
For me its kind of like the age old question, "Can God or can't He make a bolder large enough to crush himself with. I suppose he could.....if he is stupid. That is kind of in line with my perseption of sin. Sin is plain stupid and counterproductive. We see that in our own lives even. Why on Earth then would God participate in such stupidity? Sin is sim ...[text shortened]... t it is so counterproductive in their own lives and lose faith in the One that is all knowing.
better explained
22 Feb 10
Originally posted by josephwWhat are the attributes of God?
That is, a question for those who believe there is a God, and not just any god, but the God who created everything that was created. The God.
Is there anything impossible for God to do? That is, besides lie.
Alternatively: How does God do stuff?
22 Feb 10
Originally posted by josephwGod cannot violate His own nature.
That is, a question for those who believe there is a God, and not just any god, but the God who created everything that was created. The God.
Is there anything impossible for God to do? That is, besides lie.
However, I posit that God did the seemingly impossible: He created other gods with inviolable wills. At this point in 'time,' their exists the simultaneous pursuit of two sets of wills--- divine will and human will... which have been known to be at odds with each other.
22 Feb 10
Originally posted by FreakyKBHIf god created humans and imbued them with a 'will', then the degree to which we are at odds with god is the degree to which he designed us to be at odds with him.
God cannot violate His own nature.
However, I posit that God did the seemingly impossible: He created other gods with inviolable wills. At this point in 'time,' their exists the simultaneous pursuit of two sets of wills--- divine will and human will... which have been known to be at odds with each other.
22 Feb 10
Originally posted by rwingettI think there may be a slight difference between design's intent and possibilities. From what I have gathered, the exemplar of intent is seen in the life of the Lord Jesus Christ. On the other end of the spectrum, the nadir of possibilities is seen in the existence of Satan.
If god created humans and imbued them with a 'will', then the degree to which we are at odds with god is the degree to which he designed us to be at odds with him.
22 Feb 10
Originally posted by FreakyKBHuntil his son was born, god violated his nature all over the place.
God cannot violate His own nature.
However, I posit that God did the seemingly impossible: He created other gods with inviolable wills. At this point in 'time,' their exists the simultaneous pursuit of two sets of wills--- divine will and human will... which have been known to be at odds with each other.
vengeance, genocides, suffering, random punishments of innocents.
unless his nature was to be evil. in which case the birth of a son caused him to violate his nature then by being a much nicer guy.
or maybe, and this is a wild thought, god has actually free will and he can do whatever he damn well chooses. a human can be good or evil or indifferent, why can't god be those things? are you saying there are things a human can do and god cannot? morevover since he created us, he was able to give us an ability he never had?
22 Feb 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziIf you think that God has ever violated His nature, only three possible explanations are available. Either you don't know history, i.e., what actually happened; or, you don't know His nature; or, both.
until his son was born, god violated his nature all over the place.
vengeance, genocides, suffering, random punishments of innocents.
unless his nature was to be evil. in which case the birth of a son caused him to violate his nature then by being a much nicer guy.
or maybe, and this is a wild thought, god has actually free will and he can do wha ...[text shortened]... and god cannot? morevover since he created us, he was able to give us an ability he never had?
23 Feb 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziI don't trust your evaluation. Perhaps its because I read the entire Bible carefully or keep reading on.
until his son was born, god violated his nature all over the place.
vengeance, genocides, suffering, random punishments of innocents.
unless his nature was to be evil. in which case the birth of a son caused him to violate his nature then by being a much nicer guy.
or maybe, and this is a wild thought, god has actually free will and he can do wha ...[text shortened]... and god cannot? morevover since he created us, he was able to give us an ability he never had?
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vengeance,
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The very occasion for vengence, that against Cain for murdering his brother Avbel, God forbides that anyone would take vengence on Cain.
So I don't too quickly assume your evaluation of God's character is accurate.
And there are instances where enemies of Israel who were used by God to discipline Israel, God scolds for going too far. In other words His discipline was measured but they were without restraint in their vengence.
So I think I have to question your view that God's vengence is unjust. He does say that for all sins vengence is His and He will repay. But this vengence fell upon one Man the Son of God that ALL humans might be redeemed.
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genocides,
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I seriously question this criticism also. It could be that it just does not occur to most of us that a society could get so bad that the very future of the human race was in jepardy from its evil spreading.
Amputation of a gangrened limb may seem cruel from on angle. But from the view of the physician tying to save the parient's whole body it is a tragic but necessary remedy.
There is plenty of adjustment of societies in the Bible that are less harsh. So I have to assume that in the record there was faithfully included a situation where an annhilation was the only divine remedy to protect the spread of horrible contagion.
IF you or I do it it is probably wrong, for we do not know everything. If God Almighty had to do it, my bets are it had to be done.
At any rate the Hebrew kings of the nation of Jehovah had a reputation in Canaan of being "merciful" kings. So if they had such a reputation I have to take your criticism with a grain of salt. Maybe you're biased.
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suffering,
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The overall impression I get from the Bible is how wonderfully God sustained people through suffering.
So here also I'm skeptical of your view.
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random punishments of innocents.
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Since you and I are not all knowing we cannot know that there are such random punishment of presumably innocents.
Nor would I regard all misfortune as punishment.
Nor would I regard all puniushment as having no final condstructive outcome for the advanced betterment of those under punishment.
I am glad that the Bible covers centries of God's dealings with people in various situations. The variety of cases faithfully recorded prevents me from getting a simplistic biased view such as you push.