Originally posted by telerion I have gone over this before. Believing in a spirit world (the strictest case of "spirituality" ) does not necessitate belief in a god. Hence a "New Ager" can feel a "spiritual" connection and still be an atheist. Another example is an atheistic medium who believes in channeling spirits from beyond the dead.
The supposition that a spirit world requir ...[text shortened]... ny god(s)-believers mistakenly equate atheism with a lack of belief in anything spiritual.
So does this mean you beleive in a spiritual world? When I say spiritual world I am refering to your spirit as a distinct entity that exists apart from the body.
Originally posted by whodey So does this mean you beleive in a spiritual world? When I say spiritual world I am refering to your spirit as a distinct entity that exists apart from the body.
No. This same confusion seemed to arise from Hal in another thread (which I have promised to return to.). Discussing a certain idea does not necessarily mean that I support or believe that idea. In this case, I have shown that it is possible for an atheist to believe in spirits (and if one believes in spirits then one certainly believes in at least one thing "spiritual" ).
That is all. It is not a statement of my personal beliefs in any way.
Originally posted by amannion We've been through this before.
Spirituality means many things to many people. I consider some things in my life to be spiritual - yet I'm an atheist.
My experience of love for my wife and kids would be one.
My sense of wonder at the world when I'm in natural environments is another.
My sense of insignificance in the universe when I watch stars in the s ...[text shortened]... ese with religious notions.
I'm not much into that, but hey ... whatever takes your fancy.
If that is spiritual, then why does it matter what spirituality is?
These are just feelings that you have. They might be good feelings, but do they relate to a metaphysical sense of the word?
If you can consider something spiritual because of the way it feels to you, then anything you want can be spiritual, and thus spirituality has no meaning.
Originally posted by Codfish If that is spiritual, then why does it matter what spirituality is?
These are just feelings that you have. They might be good feelings, but do they relate to a metaphysical sense of the word?
If you can consider something spiritual because of the way it feels to you, then anything you want can be spiritual, and thus spirituality has no meaning.
Your last sentence is perplexing to me. If you believe that, you run the danger of being self-righteous and excluding the values and interpretations others may have that give them deep meaning. I used to hang out with a bunch of men and we would drum way out in the woods at night. I found this to be an exhilarating experience, yea verily, spiritual. It had deep profound meaning for me.
Wouldn't it be refreshing to say, "Wow! Anything you want can be spiritual. Wouldn't it be great if we all tried to find a spiritual essense in all of life's experiences?"
Originally posted by kirksey957 Your last sentence is perplexing to me. If you believe that, you run the danger of being self-righteous and excluding the values and interpretations others may have that give them deep meaning. I used to hang out with a bunch of men and we would drum way out in the woods at night. I found this to be an exhilarating experience, yea verily, spiritual. dn't it be great if we all tried to find a spiritual essense in all of life's experiences?"
"It had a deep profound meaning to me"
Are you just using this sentence to make it sound like you were doing deep thinking, or was this profound meaning in finding something that you could value outside of yourself.
If it is the latter, then I understand your point.
If it is the former, then all your experiences that you think about are spiritual and the word is different in your mind than in mine
I know that 'spirituality' and 'atheism' belong to two different categories of concepts. So, any subsequent qualifier to the two would also belong to two different categories - therefore the two cannot be identical.
I missed this one. Spirituality and atheism belong to two different categories of concepts and therefore they cannot be identical? Perhaps I should have a go at this some other day when my head has cleared a little from all the pasta, but whomever said spirituality and atheism were equal?
Edit: As in: "Men and their genitals aren't equal, yet there are men with genitals."
Originally posted by telerion The supposition that a spirit world requires a god is an application of the same misguided reasoning that a natural world requires a god.
Originally posted by amannion We've been through this before.
Spirituality means many things to many people. I consider some things in my life to be spiritual - yet I'm an atheist.
My experience of love for my wife and kids would be one.
My sense of wonder at the world when I'm in natural environments is another.
My sense of insignificance in the universe when I watch stars in the s ese with religious notions.
I'm not much into that, but hey ... whatever takes your fancy.
If it is your opinion that spirituality "means many things to many people", then spirituality cannot be discussed as a like term between different people.
Thus, the question, "What is secular spirituality? (which btw, no one has answered) is useless unless our personal definitions agree.
I will now stop trying to understand this term because it is clear I won't get a real answer.
P.S You cannot define "secular spirituality" with an example of it. So stop trying to.
Originally posted by Codfish If it is your opinion that spirituality "means many things to many people", then spirituality cannot be discussed as a like term between different people.
Thus, the question, "What is secular spirituality? (which btw, no one has answered) is useless unless our personal definitions agree.
I will now stop trying to understand this term because it is clea ...[text shortened]...
P.S You cannot define "secular spirituality" with an example of it. So stop trying to.
Why must our personal definition "agree"? I think this thread has offered you several examples so I'm at a loss to your stance.
Originally posted by Codfish If that is spiritual, then why does it matter what spirituality is?
These are just feelings that you have. They might be good feelings, but do they relate to a metaphysical sense of the word?
If you can consider something spiritual because of the way it feels to you, then anything you want can be spiritual, and thus spirituality has no meaning.
Originally posted by Codfish If it is your opinion that spirituality "means many things to many people", then spirituality cannot be discussed as a like term between different people.
Thus, the question, "What is secular spirituality? (which btw, no one has answered) is useless unless our personal definitions agree.
I will now stop trying to understand this term because it is clea ...[text shortened]...
P.S You cannot define "secular spirituality" with an example of it. So stop trying to.
By your logic everything is useless unless our personal definitions agree.
The whole point of contributing to this forum is to try to understand what other people think and why. Pretty much by definition my 'personal definitions' are not going to be the same as anyone elses - that's why I'm here. I'm truly interested in other people's ideas and why they have them.
(Of course, if I can change a few people's minds, or at least cause them to critically analyse them, that'd be a bonus.)
Originally posted by amannion By your logic everything is useless unless our personal definitions agree.
The whole point of contributing to this forum is to try to understand what other people think and why. Pretty much by definition my 'personal definitions' are not going to be the same as anyone elses - that's why I'm here. I'm truly interested in other people's ideas and why they ...[text shortened]... w people's minds, or at least cause them to critically analyse them, that'd be a bonus.)
Normally, I would agree with you. But in this thread, several people have asserted that they know what secular spirituality is. When I ask them, they give me an example of one of their spiritual experiences, instead of what makes something spiritual.
No definition of secular spirituality has been posted.
All I want is someone to post something that looks like a definition instead of a vague example.
Originally posted by Vladamir no1 Should humanity be moving towards a secular spirituality that fufils our intrinsic need for spiritual beliefs and supplies a morality without the problematic figure of a god?
A secular spirituality
28 Apr '06 22:28
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