Originally posted by AThousandYoungI totally experience your mother last night.
Technically, a person cannot be experienced, by the way. One can experience an image of a person and assume the existence of the image is actually caused by a person and is not a hallucination; one can experience powerful emotion and assume it's caused by a person; but one cannot experience a person because a person is not an experience. Experiences a ...[text shortened]... eople are not perceptions though they can cause perceptions through the medium of their bodies.
Originally posted by jaywillJesus is just a word. There is no power in a word. The power you are talking about is contrived by your belief and your faith. When I say Jesus out-loud, I don't feel anything, except maybe a little silly.
Calling on the name of Jesus is a simple way to touch the reality of Christ. The living Person of Jesus can be experienced by calling "O Lord Jesus. O Lord Jesus." If you believe that He has resin from the dead and is alive, to get to know Him you can call upon His name - Lord Jesus."
There is such power in the name of Jesus. "The last Adam became a li ...[text shortened]... 15:45). We can experience the life giving Spirit of Jesus by calling on His name in faith.
B.
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Originally posted by BromageI agree with you that Jesus is just a word. I don't mean that the sound itself has any innate power like a mantra.
Jesus is just a word. There is no power in a word. The power you are talking about is contrived by your belief and your faith. When I say Jesus out-loud, I don't feel anything, except maybe a little silly.
B.
Some people use the name Jesus Christ as a two part curse word. I never hear them use other names. Have you heard anyone curse with the name Buddha or Mohammed? I have never once heard a person curse with the name Confucius.
So the sound of the name itself has no innate powers. Still people like to use this name Jesus to utter their curses. I think that the cursing attitude wants to take what is most sacred to make it crass.
But aside from this there is something special about the name to those who believe in the fact that Jesus is alive and can be known. So the calling on Jesus that I am speaking is not a mouthing with a passive and empty mind. But it is believing that God has raised Him from the dead and that one can contact Jesus.
Do you feel that prayer is futile and meaningless? I don't. Neither do I believe that Jesus is not a living Person. I believe as He taught that in resurrection He would make Himself available to all who would receive the Spirit of reality. The Spirit of reality is Christ in another form in which He is able to impart His life into our life.
So a living and available Christ is a fact which can be appropriated by faith.
There are facts in the universe which can be substantiated by faith today. "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) is one of these trustworthy and reliable facts.
Christ is today a divine life imparting Spirit - a pneumatic Christ who we may contact by prayer and by calling on Him as our Lord.
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Originally posted by scottishinnzWe have an component of our being, an "organ" if you will that can touch the life giving Spirit that Christ became -
You seen Jebus recently? JL was obviously more of a realist. He realised that people would have to do without his day to day input. Obviously, that's what he meant.
"the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
The pneumatic Christ, the "life giving Spirit" can unite with our human spirit and the two become mingled together within us:
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)
In this joining of Christ, the life giving Spirit to our human spirit the Spirit bears witness within us that we have become "organically" joined to God who is now our divine Father:
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (Rom. 8:16)
There occurs and inner bearing of witness by the Holy Spirit with our human spirit that we have been joined to the divine Father. There is the inner witness of the life giving Spirit with our regenerated spirit that we are at peace with God.
John (the apostle) wrote the believers to remind them that with this indwelling Spirit they knew that Jesus Christ had come into them:
"And in this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He gave to us" (First John 3:24)
The Spirit of reality bears witness. The Holy Spirit joins to our spirit to bring about "one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) with the Lord. And by this Spirit that He gives us we can know that Jesus abides in us. Though the world cannot physically see the Man in heaven He is dispensing His life and nature into His believers to saturate them with Himself.
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Originally posted by jaywillYou are obviously unfamiliar with cultures other than your own. The 'two-part curse word
Some people use the name Jesus Christ as a two part curse word. I never hear them use other names. Have you heard anyone curse with the name Buddha or Mohammed? I have never once heard a person curse with the name Confucius.
"Jesus Christ"' is totally unheard of in, say, China. Just because you are surrounded
and inundated by Occidental influences which in no small part dictate the expletives used,
doesn't provide a conclusive basis for the 'power' of a word.
Indeed, the 'power' of saying 'Jesus Christ' derives from the inherent 'law breaking' aspect
of it -- saying the name of God in vain. It is merely sociological residue that an atheist
would continue to use such a phrase, not because of their subconscious belief in the words'
power.
Nemesio
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Originally posted by NemesioFirstly, I regularly worship with Chinese speaking, Korean speaking, Spanish speaking, and English speaking Christians. There is also an Iranian couple and a Ghanaian couple with whom I converse pretty much weekly.
You are obviously unfamiliar with cultures other than your own. The 'two-part curse word
"Jesus Christ"' is totally unheard of in, say, China. Just because you are surrounded
and inundated by Occidental influences which in no small part dictate the expletives used,
doesn't provide a conclusive basis for the 'power' of a word.
Indeed, the 'pow phrase, not because of their subconscious belief in the words'
power.
Nemesio
They inform me of what goes on in their countries of origin.
Secondly, I did not specify that only Atheists, or Atheists in particular use the name of Christ in vain.
Third you totally misunderstand if you think I imply that people consciously think that Jesus is God so they purposely use the name Jesus to utter their curses. I think it is almost subconcious or intuitive. I don't think they have a firm doctrinal view about the diety of Jesus so therefore they consciously lift the name of Jesus up in vain.
Of course I am unfamiliar with many cultures. However it has been said that some non-Western folks learn the cursing of the name of Jesus before they learn many other phrases in English.
But I will ask my Chinese friends if they have ever heard anyone curse with the name Confucius. And I will as my Iranian friend if they have ever heard anyone utter Mohammed's or Allah's name in a curse. And in this way I'll check out what you suggest.
But my real interest is that God has provided such a universal and available way that men and women may know the Son of God. I find that "Whosever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" to very broad and accomodating.
Invariably the ways of attaining truth to the skeptical agnostic seem more restrictive and more elite than the open way of the New Testament. Either God is only knowlable to the very intelligent with thier Phd's in philosophy or ancient cultures or you first must master many biological theories before you can know anything about truth or God.
Calling on a living Person to obtain results in fellowship and communion is very broad of God and approaching universality. One reason I read the Bible is that it is so broad. I find human philosophies to be much more restrictive than the revelation of the Bible.
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Originally posted by huckleberryhoundCan you think of any world view that doesn't contain some amount of circular reasoning?
Circular reasoning.
No loose ends, i like it
🙄
Some philosphers say any world view contains circular reasoning.
I am undecided about that as of yet.
Originally posted by jaywillAs someone who reads Taoist Philosophy, circular reasoning is actually quite integral to what i believe.
Can you think of any world view that doesn't contain some amount of circular reasoning?
Some philosphers say any world view contains circular reasoning.
I am undecided about that as of yet.
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundThere is a certain amount of approvedness through the test of time that argues that Jesus' words should be taken seriously.
Circular reasoning.
No loose ends, i like it
🙄
If any book said anyone was Deity we might not take it seriously just on say so alone. But the character, life, death, and witness to Jesus deserves some serious consideration.
It is not just that a book and a Person confirm each other on mere say so. Contributing factors are the sheer power of the Person's personality. Jesus is in a class occupied by one person, Himself.
He is in a class by Himself. The second most worthy person to class with Jesus Christ comes no where close to Jesus Christ in righteous living and wisdom, I think.
No one spoke as this man did. I find Jesus to be believable. I don't think people would concoct such a character even if they were able to.
For what motive would people invent such a person? For political power? For racial superiority? For gender supperiority? Not if you examine His words do any of these scenarios fit.
Why would people invent a person like Jesus? His existence is a judgment against all of us.
Originally posted by jaywillIf it really floats your boat to think that then by all means.
Firstly, I regularly worship with Chinese speaking, Korean speaking, Spanish speaking, and English speaking Christians. There is also an Iranian couple and a Ghanaian couple with whom I converse pretty much weekly.
They inform me of what goes on in their countries of origin.
Secondly, I did not specify that only Atheists, or Atheists in particular us ...[text shortened]... . I find human philosophies to be much more restrictive than the revelation of the Bible.
Nemesio is right though. You've been listening to too much apologetics (I heard the same silly statement in my classes in xian school).
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Originally posted by telerionI don't know what the point of your several responses is.
If it really floats your boat to think that then by all means.
Nemesio is right though. You've been listening to too much apologetics (I heard the same silly statement in my classes in xian school).
But the point I am making here is the availability of Christ is like the availability of air. As air is all around us and accessible to all so God's Son is accessible.
In fact God said through the prophet Joel "And it shall be in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh ... And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (See Acts 2:16-21)
Just as the atmosphere surrounds us and we just breath it in for life, so is Christ the life giving Spirit all around us (in a sense) and ready to rush into our spirit. He is not the physical air. He is the heavenly "air" poured out upon all people.
Now this is a true and trustworthy statement. By coming to Christ and opening the heart calling "Lord Jesus, O Lord Jesus. Cleanse me now of my many sins. Lord Jesus I receive you" it is true the living Person of the Son of God will rush into your innermost being. The very kernel of your being will be touched by the authentic resurrected Lord Jesus.
He is rich to all who call on His name. He is available to all who call out to Him with a desire to be washed of his or her sins and receive God's Son Jesus as the Lord.
I could be very arrogant or I could be very humble. What I am does not change this reliable truth. I am not the issue. Whether I am arrogant or humble does not change this trustworthy truth -
"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all and rich to all who call upon Him; For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans 10:12,13)