Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Do you affirm or deny that Islamic law allows a man to beat his wife upon certain conditions?
Putting this here doesn't make any sense. And I don't need to re answer that again.
For every one I gave a complete answer to this in the Debate forume and starting this thread here means only the Dr. Scribbles (PBUH) try to make a propaganda from nothing.
A short answer ,
As you know I'm a muslim:
I want to ask you something:
1- Do you know at what bases those scholers build their opinion?
2- Can you define the wife beating they are talking about?
Ok I don't know if you have an answer, I don't think you have one. But Islam doesn't depend on Mulla (I don't know what does this word mean you tell me) or scholar. We only take our faith and law from what Quran and Prophet said. If it is not there then it doesn't exist.
So I will clarify this for you and for every one else here for the last time, and I will answer the two questions I asked you, but please read it all before you answer:
Wife beating in Islam:
There is a verse in Quran say:
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
I gave you 3 translation so the meaning could be close to you. Of course I read it in Arabic so I will try to make the meaning close:
1- This verse is from Sura (Chapter) Al Nesa (Women). This Sura gives a lot of regulation about the relation between man and woman. So if you read the complete Sura, it might give you more information about woman in Islam (Of course not every thing).
2- The verse first state the normal relation between man and woman in the family and as the man in Islam is responsible for funding his wife even if she is reach and have money. So Allah states that for this reason man is the family head. (I'm talking about the normal family).
3- Then it talkes about a specific situation: Which is indecated in the three translations in different ways:
YUSUFALI: As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct.
PICKTHAL: As for those from whom ye fear rebellion.
SHAKIR: and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion,
The word used in Arabic for [disloyalty and ill-conduct, rebellion or desertation] is noshos. It is a situation for the wife when she is in a complete disopediance to her husband, so it means all the three meaning given by the three translations. It is not up to the husband to state that his wife in noshos, it is specified in the next verse how this happenes:
If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.
And if ye fear a breach between them twain (the man and wife), appoint an arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk. If they desire amendment Allah will make them of one mind. Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Aware.
And if you fear a breach between the two, then appoint judge from his people and a judge from her people; if they both desire agreement, Allah will effect harmony between them, surely Allah is Knowing, Aware.
So both families of the wife and husband should get involved in this.
4- The verse then gives a three step procedure for the husband to resolve this situation. And it states that if the wife returned from her disobediance than the husband don't move to the next step. The three steps are:
1 - Advice, and admonish her. This means that the husband or any other member in the family set with her and advice her. If the problem is solved then that is it.
2- Leave them in sleeping place. This is the second level. To sleep away from her. To show her that you don't like her behavior. In Sunna (the second source of Islamic law) it is defined by sleeping with her in the same room but give her your back. I'm sorry I didn't find the translation of the Hadith (What the prophet said in that) in English, I'm searching for it and I will give the source when I find.
Again if this solved the problem then that is it.
3- The third stage of this procedure is beating (which you based your whole thread about) , and this stage is reached in the extream condition when the woman continue in her "Noshos". Again Sunna defined beating as light beating , for example , using Meswak stick (Meswak stick is a small normally 5cm long 8mm thick stick used by Arabs to clean their teeth). So what is allowed is light beating by this stick. (Again I'm searching for the translation for the Hadith).
4- Given this we can conclude the following:
a- Quran gives a complete details about the relation between man and woman in the family. You can't just pick up something and ignore the rest.
b- In normal families wife beatings is not allowed. Actually the verse clearly states that (Nessa 4.34).
c- Wife beating is that last stage of three stage procedure to resolve a situation in a family called "noshos". It is not up to you to start with it. It is the last option in the extream condition.
d- Wife beating is a third option , so it is an option, not an obligation.
e- The sunna defined it as light beating with small stick that can't hurt her. Actually there are a lot of Hadith that forbidde beating woman that cause any harm to her.
f- The so defined beating is not to hurt the woman. But to show her that she reached an extream condition in her family.
h- This is the Islamic teaching in this point. If a muslim just beated his wife because he wanted to do that, he sure not following Quran and Sunna. If he beated his wife for any reason except he reached the third stage of "Noshos" then he is not following Quran or Sunna. If he beat hurt her by any means then he is not following Quran and sunna. If any Imam or Mulla (You still need to define this) advocated another sort of wife beating other that the so retricted wife beating discussed above don't belive him and don't follow him.
g- At last , I was waiting for you to give a reference from Quran and Sunna all the way long, not to just repeat what people say. I don't care what anyone say, and no Muslim should do. It is only Quran and Sunna that Muslim should follow. If a nut came out and say Muslim should beat their wives that has nothing to do with me. He is ignorant.
If I should follow the same way then the amount of hatred I have seen here in this forume for Muslims and Islam is enough for me to Judge Christianity and the soo civilized west.
At the end , I know you may take my words again and try to attack Islam, or to prove your point. But it doesn't matter, I showed you what I know Islam is. I'm really started to be afraid about myself and my family from the amount of hatred I have seen here. Thank you for making this possible.