Abortion

Originally posted by KingDavid403
Great question!
I'm a Christian man and I don't think all abortion is a sin or that it can be considered murder.
King Davids first punishment from God for his murder of Uriah was that God killed King Davids new born child with Bathsheba. And since God is incapable of sin this makes certain that not all abortions are sin or murder.
Also when God to ...[text shortened]... baby no matter what unless God speaks very clearly to a women personally telling her this.

King Davids first punishment from God for his murder of Uriah was that God killed King Davids new born child with Bathsheba. And since God is incapable of sin this makes certain that not all abortions are sin or murder.

That's a rather bizarre argument. What you describe is not an instance of abortion, but rather an instance of infanticide. It could not be a just act for one to visit suffering and death on an infant for something the infant's father had perpetrated. This story would just show that your god is at times neither just nor, apparently, all that smart. It would show that your god is a murderer. If you think the story is true, then you should just jettison the supposition that your god is incapable of murder.

Also when God told the Israelite s to take the promise-land He told them to kill everything including those innocent little babies that never did anything wrong.

More senseless infanticide? What's your god's problem?

In cases of rape I know for a fact that God is not telling women they have to have a rapists baby no matter what unless God speaks very clearly to a women personally telling her this.

When your god intends to speak very clearly to a rape victim and personally tell her that she should have her rapist's baby, how does He break the ice?

Originally posted by galveston75
The Bible says they would go to the grave like all others who die. The bible also says very few humans go to heaven and a burning hell does not exist.

oh yeah, the 144k spots in heaven. you know, for an out-of-normal fabric of space and time place it seems quite a dodgy design to only be able to house so few immaterial souls.

is it believable that god is running an elitist club that not even a million out of the billions of souls in humanity's history can enter? that even though your sins are forgiven and you were very nice, you still will be getting the low-quality retirement plan just because one of your fellow christian was ripped to pieces by lions in nero's arena?

Originally posted by galveston75
The Bible says they would go to the grave like all others who die. The bible also says very few humans go to heaven and a burning hell does not exist.

The Bible also says that the Jehovah's Witness are a dangerous manipulative cult.

At least it does in my version.

Originally posted by galveston75
The Bible says they would go to the grave like all others who die. The bible also says very few humans go to heaven and a burning hell does not exist.

And the supposedly omniscient god, assuming that property, already knew who would go to heaven and to non-hell or hell, whatever you believe. So much for free will.

Or, conversely, this god is not omniscient, in which case you are just worshiping an advanced being who could have come from any one of the trillions of stars in the universe or even the one before that.

How would you be able to tell the dif? I put it to you, you can't.

Originally posted by sonhouse
And the supposedly omniscient god, assuming that property, already knew who would go to heaven and to non-hell or hell, whatever you believe. So much for free will.

Or, conversely, this god is not omniscient, in which case you are just worshiping an advanced being who could have come from any one of the trillions of stars in the universe or even the one before that.

How would you be able to tell the dif? I put it to you, you can't.

why does an omniscient god denies free will?

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]King Davids first punishment from God for his murder of Uriah was that God killed King Davids new born child with Bathsheba. And since God is incapable of sin this makes certain that not all abortions are sin or murder.

That's a rather bizarre argument. What you describe is not an instance of abortion, but rather an instance of infanticide. I and personally tell her that she should have her rapist's baby, how does He break the ice?[/b]

What's your god's problem?

One of His problems is people like you.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
[b]What's your god's problem?

One of His problems is people like you.[/b]

Your god thinks it is okay to go around sanctioning mass infanticide. Sounds like his problems are legion.

After feeling my little girl kick around inside the womb and seeing her on an ultrasound anyone who says it's just a fetus and nothing more in delusional. It's a human being from the point of conception onward. Being at different points of age or development is irrelevant it will always be a human being nothing more nothing less. This is the value then because this human being is created in the image of God. I however acknowledge that we live in an imperfect tainted world. On paper I'm 100% against abortion but I can understand a women not wanting to have a child because of rape or incest. This is a very tough issue I think that's why it's not discussed a whole lot. There are case in the old testament where it gives examples like is two men were fighting and caused a women to mis-carry it would be charged as man slaughter or something I will research after work.
Lastly I believe God is just and these do go to be with God and are not sent to hell or whatever
Manny

Originally posted by LemonJello
Your god thinks it is okay to go around sanctioning mass infanticide. Sounds like his problems are legion.

[some of]my god's followers think its okay to go around thinking god is sanctioning mass infanticide. their problems are legion

Originally posted by buckky
I'm curious about the aborted babies fate in the afterlife. Do they go to Heaven or Hell. Now if they go to Hell, I can see how it would be an outrage, but if they go to Heaven then no harm done right ? I would of loved to bypass the earth experience, and go directly to Heaven avoiding the stress of the physical world.

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I would of loved to bypass the earth experience, and go directly to Heaven avoiding the stress of the physical world.
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You should not regard the eternal purpose of God is to take you to a happy place. You should regard the destination of the saved person as God's plan to transform you into the image of Christ. Then it is more a destination of a Person into whose image we will be conformed and transformed rather than a happy place to which we are going.

"Because those whom He foreknew He also predestinated to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Rom. 8:29 my emphasis)

This is more the destination of a Person rather than a mere physical place.
This is the divinely intended destiny of partaking of a certain life and nature.
Where the person is physically is secondary.

The Bible closes with a "sign" of the New Jerusalem descending out of heaven from God. The symbol of that city is of a corporate group of people regenerated with God's life, redeemed, sanctified, conformed and transformed into the image of Christ - built up into a corporate expression of a collective entity that is suitable to match Jesus Christ Himself as His "bride".


Since New Jerusalem is seen coming down out of heaven it precludes that heaven is not meant to be the eternal destiny of man. And the coming down of this city, this "bride" of Christ, this tabernacle of God means that her SOURCE is purely out of God in heaven.

We should not either think that DEATH is a realm we have to go into in order to meet God and be with Him forever. He is not the God of the dead but the God of the living. It is not right to think that God wants adults or babies to go into the realm of DEATH so that there they may be with God.

Christ is "the resurrection and the life" . And resurrection is not so much of an "afterlife" as it is a total victory over all manner of death. I prefer the biblical phrase "eternal life" then the religious notion of the "afterlife".

Death is more offensive to God then sin. Death is called the last enemy.
We should view God's full salvation not as "afterlife" but victory over death in eternal life.

"And when this corruptible will put on incorruption and this moral will put on immortality, then the wrd which is written will come to pass, 'Death has been swallowed up unto victory.

Where, O death, us your victory? Where, O death, is your sting? " (1 Cor. 15:54,55)

In God's full salvation it is not the afterlife, but the swallowing up of death by immortality and eternal life. And this swallowing up in divine life is a swallowing up in a Person who can unite with, mingle with, and blend with our whole being. Man is compounded with and into God to be sons of God.

There are some unknowns in the Bible. And we are not told everything that we may like to know. Abraham said of God "Shall the Judge of all the earth not do justly?" (Gen. 18:25b)

There are some good views on the dying of babies. There are passages here and there which may give us indications. I personally see nothing so definite that I can say at this point that I know for certain about babies who have died. But I say with Abraham the father of faith - "Shall the Judge of all the earth not do justly ?"

It is also signigicant to remember that the eternal age does not begin with the second coming of Christ to the earth. Rather the eternal age follows an intervening period of 1,000 years - known as the millennial kingdom.

At least six times we are told in Revelation 20 that following the second coming of Christ there is a period of 1,000 years before God brings in a totally new heaven and new earth with the full completion of the New Jerusalem "city" bride of Christ.

God will still be operating towards His eternal purpose during this preceeding 1,000 years. We are also told that after the 1,000 years there is a little season in which Satan who has been bound will again be loosed.

I do not know how long THAT period will last either. I know that Satan, death, Hell will all be completely conquered in the eternal age of the new heaven and new earth.

Concerning the specific questions of which I have no SURE knowledge of I always remember the passage in the Bible which emphasizes that we obey what we ARE told. The things we are not told, for now, belong to God:

Deuternomomy 29:29 - "The things that are hidden belong to Jehovah our God; but the things that are revealed to us and our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."

Originally posted by buckky
I'm curious about the aborted babies fate in the afterlife. Do they go to Heaven or Hell. Now if they go to Hell, I can see how it would be an outrage, but if they go to Heaven then no harm done right ? I would of loved to bypass the earth experience, and go directly to Heaven avoiding the stress of the physical world.

Because the Bible is fabricated it teaches that when a child or baby dies it goes to heaven. But then we see Christians demonstrating against abortion..........so if the babies are going to heaven why are they demonstrating?

They are demonstrating because they have no clue what is going on and they are making it all up as they go along which is further proof of the falsity of the Bible.

Christians are the most foolish and confused persons I have ever come across, even more so than atheists.

They say that sinners go to the lake of fire and then 5 minutes later they say the sinners soul will be destroyed.........they have no clue and make it up but because their doctrine has been concocted its no wonder.

Originally posted by Dasa
Christians are the most foolish and confused persons I have ever come across, even more so than atheists.

"The first thing you realize after you die is that you are not dead."

Dasa/vishvahetu (in another thread)

Originally posted by divegeester
[b]"The first thing you realize after you die is that you are not dead."

Dasa/vishvahetu (in another thread)[/b]

don't feed him